Democrats and Nazis

Title: Democrats and Nazis
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From：USA
Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM

Date Posted：11/18/2018 1:27 PMCopy HTML

Dinesh D’Souza made a claim in a speech he just gave, he said the nazi's modeled their 25 point plan upon the Democratic platform. D'Souza actually made the claim earlier in a book and a movie but I just heard it tonight.

It's quite a statement so I wanted to examine it. Here's the 25 point plan....

The Program of the German Workers’ Party is designed to be of limited duration. The leaders have no intention, once the aims announced in it have been achieved, of establishing fresh ones, merely in order to increase, artificially, the discontent of the masses and so ensure the continued existence of the Party.

1. We demand the union of all Germans in a Greater Germany on the basis of the right of national self-determination.

2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in its dealings with other nations, and the revocation of the peace treaties of Versailles and Saint-Germain.

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) to feed our people and to settle our surplus population.

4. Only members of the nation may be citizens of the State. Only those of German blood, whatever their creed, may be members of the nation. Accordingly, no Jew may be a member of the nation.

5. Non-citizens may live in Germany only as guests and must be subject to laws for aliens.

6. The right to vote on the State’s government and legislation shall be enjoyed by the citizens of the State alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, whether in the Reich, in the states or in the smaller localities, shall be held by none but citizens.

We oppose the corrupting parliamentary custom of filling posts merely in accordance with party considerations, and without reference to character or abilities.

7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich.

8. All non-German immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who entered Germany after 2 August 1914 shall be required to leave the Reich forthwith.

9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.

10. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.

We demand therefore:

11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work.

The breaking of the slavery of interest

12. In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.

15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municipal orders.

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.

19. We demand that Roman Law, which serves a materialistic world order, be replaced by a German common law.

20. The State must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education (with the aim of opening up to every able and hard-working German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining advancement). The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life. The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the notion of the State (through the study of civic affairs). We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the State.

21. The State must ensure that the nation’s health standards are raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor, by promoting physical strength through legislation providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth.

22. We demand the abolition of the mercenary [i.e. professional] army and the formation of a people’s army.

23. We demand legal warfare on deliberate political mendacity and its dissemination in the press. To facilitate the creation of a German national press we demand:

(a) that all editors of, and contributors to newspapers appearing in the German language must be members of the nation;

(b) that no non-German newspapers may appear without the express permission of the State. They must not be printed in the German language;

(c) that non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from participating financially in or influencing German newspapers, and that the penalty for contravening such a law shall be the suppression of any such newspaper, and the immediate deportation of the non-Germans involved.

The publishing of papers which are not conducive to the national welfare must be forbidden. We demand the legal prosecution of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural events which violate this demand.

24. We demand freedom for all religious denominations in the State, provided they do not threaten its existence nor offend the moral feelings of the German race.

The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not commit itself to any particular denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health only from within on the basis of the principle: The common interest before self-interest.

25. To put the whole of this program into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central state power for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states.

The leaders of the Party promise to work ruthlessly—if need be to sacrifice their very lives—to translate this program into action.

Source of English translation: Jeremy Noakes and Geoffrey Pridham, eds., Nazism 1919-1945, Vol. 1, The Rise to Power 1919-1934. Exeter: University of Exeter Press, 1998, pp. 14-16.

Source of original German text: Ernst Deuerlein, Der Aufstieg der NSDAP in Augenzeugenberichten. Munich: Deutscher Taschenbuch Verlag, 1974, pp.108-12.

http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/docpage.cfm?docpage_id=4811

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

Rank：TAE Member
Score：19447
Posts：17177
From：USA
Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM

Re：Democrats and Nazis

Date Posted：11/18/2018 1:50 PMCopy HTML

Quite a lot there to go over and rather than make the o.p. 90 miles long... here we are.

The best I could find without expending too much effort, regarding the democrat party platform was this... which is quite a bit longer.  Since D'Sousa's claim is the nazis modeled their nonsense after the democrats, I elected to go with 1916 as the 25 point plan was in 1920.

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/1916-democratic-party-platform

In all honesty, I'm not seeing many correlations.  They were, however, particularly fawning over Woodrow Wilson... much like they are today over The Obama and the clintons.

Wilson, if you're not aware, was a racist.  Not in the modern use of the word where you're a racist if you forget to brush your teeth in the morning.  No, Wilson was an honest to god actual racist in the true meaning of the word.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

Rank：TAE Member
Score：1768
Posts：1528
From：USA
Register：12/10/2008 12:41 AM

Re：Democrats and Nazis

Date Posted：11/19/2018 9:38 PMCopy HTML

Well, the Democrats are more bragging than demanding like the Nazis.

Both of them represent what they think their people want to hear, support, vote for, and fight for, if it comes to that.  They may or may not have that correctly estimated. As usual, both have the real agendas hidden from the public.

Interesting that it’s been two years past a hundred and Democrats are still a work in progress on some of the same issues.  Of course, some issues like some mistakes just never go away.

Most of the Nazi demands sound reasonable for the country at the time, if you didn’t know where they were headed.  I’m not upset to take good ideas from an enemy, just because he’s an enemy, like so many after WWI and WWII.  We learn from their mistakes, too.  Mistakes of previous wars helped General Patton succeed though his passion and pride gave him grief.

Rank：TAE Member
Score：19447
Posts：17177
From：USA
Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM

Re：Democrats and Nazis

Date Posted：11/20/2018 3:38 AMCopy HTML

I agree.  It's possible to learn from monsters and morons and just because a villain borrows from your ideas does not make your ideas villainous.

D'Sousa often tells dubious listeners to examine the record for themselves... so, here we are.  

It does appear that at least some of the 25 points are also found in the democrat platform... then and now... so he's technically correct.  Some of those points are also found, alas, in the republican platform.  I'm looking at you, 'repeal and replace obamacare'.

We sent you knuckleds to washington to repleal obamacare, not replace it with some other lunatic socialized medicine scheme and we also sent you daft wankers there to get the budget under control and start paying down the debt.

They've completely and utterly failed on both counts.  Again.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

Rank：TAE Member
Score：1768
Posts：1528
From：USA
Register：12/10/2008 12:41 AM

Re：Democrats and Nazis

Date Posted：11/20/2018 8:59 PMCopy HTML

What goes around, comes around.

Rank：TAE Member
Score：1768
Posts：1528
From：USA
Register：12/10/2008 12:41 AM

Re：Democrats and Nazis

Date Posted：11/20/2018 9:15 PMCopy HTML

Politicians are schooled by their party to not telling the public anything, during a campaign.  Why?  If you tell them something, those who disagree will keep that in mind and vote for the other candidate.  That’s even if a voter agrees with you on all other issues.  He doesn’t know the other candidate any better than you, but he remembers a point of disagreement with you that he doesn’t have with the other candidate.....

Little wonder there’s some who’d like to take the vote away from the general public.  Jefferson had the best solution:  education.  For the opposition, that means dumbing down the schools with norm based testing.  

School boards are made up of.......

alaskaone
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Date Posted：11/18/2018 1:27 PMCopy HTML Dinesh D’Souza made a claim in a speech he just gave, he said the nazi's modeled their 25 point plan upon the Democratic platform. D'Souza actually made the claim earlier in a book and a movie but I just heard it tonight. It's quite a statement so I wanted to examine it. Here's the 25 point plan.... The Program of the German Workers’ Party is designed to be of limited duration. The leaders have no intention, once the aims announced in it have been achieved, of establishing fresh ones, merely in order to increase, artificially, the discontent of the masses and so ensure the continued existence of the Party. 1. We demand the union of all Germans in a Greater Germany on the basis of the right of national self-determination. 2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in its dealings with other nations, and the revocation of the peace treaties of Versailles and Saint-Germain. 3. We demand land and territory (colonies) to feed our people and to settle our surplus population. 4. Only members of the nation may be citizens of the State. Only those of German blood, whatever their creed, may be members of the nation. Accordingly, no Jew may be a member of the nation. 5. Non-citizens may live in Germany only as guests and must be subject to laws for aliens. 6. The right to vote on the State’s government and legislation shall be enjoyed by the citizens of the State alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, whether in the Reich, in the states or in the smaller localities, shall be held by none but citizens. We oppose the corrupting parliamentary custom of filling posts merely in accordance with party considerations, and without reference to character or abilities. 7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich. 8. All non-German immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who entered Germany after 2 August 1914 shall be required to leave the Reich forthwith. 9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties. 10. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good. We demand therefore: 11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work. The breaking of the slavery of interest 12. In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits. 13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts). 14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises. 15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age. 16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municipal orders. 17. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land. 18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race. 19. We demand that Roman Law, which serves a materialistic world order, be replaced by a German common law. 20. The State must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education (with the aim of opening up to every able and hard-working German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining advancement). The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life. The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the notion of the State (through the study of civic affairs). We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the State. 21. The State must ensure that the nation’s health standards are raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor, by promoting physical strength through legislation providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth. 22. We demand the abolition of the mercenary [i.e. professional] army and the formation of a people’s army. 23. We demand legal warfare on deliberate political mendacity and its dissemination in the press. To facilitate the creation of a German national press we demand: (a) that all editors of, and contributors to newspapers appearing in the German language must be members of the nation; (b) that no non-German newspapers may appear without the express permission of the State. They must not be printed in the German language; (c) that non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from participating financially in or influencing German newspapers, and that the penalty for contravening such a law shall be the suppression of any such newspaper, and the immediate deportation of the non-Germans involved. The publishing of papers which are not conducive to the national welfare must be forbidden. We demand the legal prosecution of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural events which violate this demand. 24. We demand freedom for all religious denominations in the State, provided they do not threaten its existence nor offend the moral feelings of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not commit itself to any particular denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health only from within on the basis of the principle: The common interest before self-interest. 25. To put the whole of this program into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central state power for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states. The leaders of the Party promise to work ruthlessly—if need be to sacrifice their very lives—to translate this program into action. Source of English translation: Jeremy Noakes and Geoffrey Pridham, eds., Nazism 1919-1945, Vol. 1, The Rise to Power 1919-1934. Exeter: University of Exeter Press, 1998, pp. 14-16. Source of original German text: Ernst Deuerlein, Der Aufstieg der NSDAP in Augenzeugenberichten. Munich: Deutscher Taschenbuch Verlag, 1974, pp.108-12. http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/docpage.cfm?docpage_id=4811 Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone	Share to: #1
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：Democrats and Nazis Date Posted：11/18/2018 1:50 PMCopy HTML Quite a lot there to go over and rather than make the o.p. 90 miles long... here we are. The best I could find without expending too much effort, regarding the democrat party platform was this... which is quite a bit longer. Since D'Sousa's claim is the nazis modeled their nonsense after the democrats, I elected to go with 1916 as the 25 point plan was in 1920. https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/1916-democratic-party-platform In all honesty, I'm not seeing many correlations. They were, however, particularly fawning over Woodrow Wilson... much like they are today over The Obama and the clintons. Wilson, if you're not aware, was a racist. Not in the modern use of the word where you're a racist if you forget to brush your teeth in the morning. No, Wilson was an honest to god actual racist in the true meaning of the word. Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Nickel	Share to: #2
Rank：TAE Member Score：1768 Posts：1528 From：USA Register：12/10/2008 12:41 AM	Re：Democrats and Nazis Date Posted：11/19/2018 9:38 PMCopy HTML Well, the Democrats are more bragging than demanding like the Nazis. Both of them represent what they think their people want to hear, support, vote for, and fight for, if it comes to that. They may or may not have that correctly estimated. As usual, both have the real agendas hidden from the public. Interesting that it’s been two years past a hundred and Democrats are still a work in progress on some of the same issues. Of course, some issues like some mistakes just never go away. Most of the Nazi demands sound reasonable for the country at the time, if you didn’t know where they were headed. I’m not upset to take good ideas from an enemy, just because he’s an enemy, like so many after WWI and WWII. We learn from their mistakes, too. Mistakes of previous wars helped General Patton succeed though his passion and pride gave him grief.
alaskaone	Share to: #3
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：Democrats and Nazis Date Posted：11/20/2018 3:38 AMCopy HTML I agree. It's possible to learn from monsters and morons and just because a villain borrows from your ideas does not make your ideas villainous. D'Sousa often tells dubious listeners to examine the record for themselves... so, here we are. It does appear that at least some of the 25 points are also found in the democrat platform... then and now... so he's technically correct. Some of those points are also found, alas, in the republican platform. I'm looking at you, 'repeal and replace obamacare'. We sent you knuckleds to washington to repleal obamacare, not replace it with some other lunatic socialized medicine scheme and we also sent you daft wankers there to get the budget under control and start paying down the debt. They've completely and utterly failed on both counts. Again. Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Nickel	Share to: #4
Rank：TAE Member Score：1768 Posts：1528 From：USA Register：12/10/2008 12:41 AM	Re：Democrats and Nazis Date Posted：11/20/2018 8:59 PMCopy HTML What goes around, comes around.
Nickel	Share to: #5
Rank：TAE Member Score：1768 Posts：1528 From：USA Register：12/10/2008 12:41 AM	Re：Democrats and Nazis Date Posted：11/20/2018 9:15 PMCopy HTML Politicians are schooled by their party to not telling the public anything, during a campaign. Why? If you tell them something, those who disagree will keep that in mind and vote for the other candidate. That’s even if a voter agrees with you on all other issues. He doesn’t know the other candidate any better than you, but he remembers a point of disagreement with you that he doesn’t have with the other candidate..... Little wonder there’s some who’d like to take the vote away from the general public. Jefferson had the best solution: education. For the opposition, that means dumbing down the schools with norm based testing. School boards are made up of.......