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| Title: Here's to you, New York, New York | |
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alaskaone
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Date Posted：02/02/2019 6:14 AMCopy HTML Congratulations on legalizing murder. Well done, that.
Come to the Dark Side.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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Nickel
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#1
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/09/2019 10:20 PMCopy HTML Sarcasm......A Modest Proposal.....NY codified federal law.
A woman’s body is her own. She is not cattle to be impregnated at a man’s will without remedy.
You can argue and have a different view, but unless she has a say, a law against abortion enslaves her which a classical liberal should oppose.
What the NY law says:
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/02/addressing-new-yorks-new-abortion-law/
The RHA permits abortions when — according to a medical professional’s “reasonable and good faith professional judgment based on the facts of the patient’s case” — “the patient is within twenty-four weeks from the commencement of pregnancy, or there is an absence of fetal viability, or the abortion is necessary to protect the patient’s life or health.”
In other words, women may choose to have an abortion prior to 24 weeks; pregnancies typically range from 38 to 42 weeks. After 24 weeks, such decisions must be made with a determination that there is an “absence of fetal viability” or that the procedure is “necessary to protect the patient’s life or health.” That determination must be made by a “health care practitioner licensed, certified, or authorized” under state law, “acting within his or her lawful scope of practice.”
Previously, abortions after 24 weeks were justified only in cases where the mother’s life was at risk — which was inconsistent with a part of the Roe decision, as we explain later.
Change in criminal statutes
Under the old law, New York criminalized abortion unless it was a “justifiable abortional act” — meaning it was within 24 weeks of the commencement of pregnancy or necessary to “preserve” the mother’s life.
The RHA removes abortion from the state’s penal code altogether; the homicide statute still defines a “person” as “a human being who has been born and is alive.” Killing a baby once born was and is still considered a homicide.
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alaskaone
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#2
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/11/2019 3:36 AMCopy HTML Come to the Dark Side.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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Nickel
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#3
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/13/2019 1:27 AMCopy HTML According to studies between 2003 and 2005, 20 to 35 percent of babies born at 23 weeks of gestation survive, while 50 to 70 percent of babies born at 24 to 25 weeks, and more than 90 percent born at 26 to 27 weeks, survive. It is rare for a baby weighing less than 500 g (17.6 ounces) to survive.
Fetal viability - Wikipedia
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That being the case established after Roe, then the law needs another look. I hesitate to say, but the birth mother should have no rights to the child, ever. Adoptive parents should have no reason to fear her reclaiming the child they raise as their own.
Children are a gift from God, but not everyone feels that way, and too many suffer from abusive parents that didn’t want them and feel trapped by them. If my mother and stepdad ever separated, I’d have chosen to go with him.
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alaskaone
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#4
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/14/2019 3:19 AMCopy HTML It appears to be the case that when pro-abortion folks start going into arguments about parental ability to take care of a child properly, financial issues, etc., after the child is born... in order to support their pro-abortion arguments... they're on really shady ground. It is unreasonable to posit a speculation as justification for abortion or murder. "I killed him because someday he might be hitler", wouldn't hold water in a court of law or any sort of discusion employing logic, reason or ethics. In my opinion, the events in NY and Virginia have given Trump the presidency in the next election. It's pretty widely accepted that Americans are split about 50/50 when it comes to abortion. But that's not what NY and Virginia did. They openly advocated, and legalized, infanticide and that is way, way way past the red line. And this is an issue that touches upon fundimental instincts of humanity... even upon the fundimental instincts of most species; to protect their young from harm. There is a reason why there are no videos of abortions online. Think about it. There are, literally, videos of every kind of atrocity you can imagine and atrocities you can't imagine or believe. But abortion? Yeah, you'll be hard pressed to find video or even images of it. Come to the Dark Side.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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Nickel
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#5
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/21/2019 8:42 PMCopy HTML Are you opposed to birth control as well?
We had the four children we wanted and when we wanted them, thanks to birth control options, the pill and an assortment of intrauterine devices that we presume worked though one pierced the uterine wall another disappeared, thought lost but was not.
Eldest of seven, my husband was well aware of how poorly the rhythm method worked. The number of mouths to feed were a big issue in his Irish home and he was put to work at an early age selling newspapers to help support the family.
Personally, I don’t believe I could ever have had an abortion, but I cannot in good conscience make that decision for another..........considering one of my ancestors gave birth to 18 children all of whom survived to have large families of their own I am exceptionally grateful to birth control.
You smugly take the high ground on abortion and ignore the financials and homeless children.
Government control of a woman’s body doesn’t seem consistent with the classical liberal, but then, that’s pretty much a contradiction of terms.
Classical versus Romantic view of humans are opposites not to be blended without contradictions. Both have perils that cause the pendulum to sway back and forth laissez faire to tyranny.
Bundles of contradictions we are, but it’s okay to try and sort out some middle ground of truth and hope for general acceptance.
Hope you felt cherished on Valentines Day.
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alaskaone
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#6
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/22/2019 5:54 PMCopy HTML No. I'm not opposed to birth control. Abortion is not birth control, it's the correction of a fuck-up.
What the law in NY says is that you may kill a baby up to, and beyond, birth. Full term birth. If you assault or murder a pregnant woman, you do not face charges as a result of the death of the baby.
I doubt you are okay with that. I confess bewilderment at your entire post which seems to be a knee jerk reaction.
From my perspective, law is about protecting individuals from violence. NY's law removes that protection entirely from a fetus through birth. There is, literally, no reason why a 3rd trimester baby should be killed. No medical reason at all. It can be removed from the mother with far less trauma to the mother than an abortion would inflict at that point and certainly far less violence toward the baby.
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Nickel
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#7
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/25/2019 11:28 PMCopy HTML A woman’s body is her own. Nothing knee jerk about that.
All the options you support are commendable, but control should be hers, not yours to force on her with a law.
A man pokes a little fun at a woman, but she carries all the burdens, and should not be treated like cattle. Her life is forever and always changed by a pregnancy, with or without abortion. The choice should be hers, not his, yours, mine, or the courts.
What does a free country mean to you?
Where’s your live and let live?
Does mind your own business ring any bells?
Geez, we go through this distraction every election cycle.........
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alaskaone
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#8
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/26/2019 12:36 AMCopy HTML Did, "through birth", escape your notice? "Late term" is bad enough... but after birth? I do not believe you.
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Nickel
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#9
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/26/2019 6:53 AMCopy HTML Two of the most heinous parts of the bill describe the new parameters of abortion: if “the patient is within twenty-four weeks from the commencement of pregnancy” and second, and this is the worst qualifier, “or the abortion is necessary to protect the patient’s life or health.” The wording of that second phrase is so comprehensive, even in legal lingo, protecting the patient’s health could mean almost anything.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/disgusting-new-york-not-only-legalized-late-term-abortions-but-also-celebrated-like-it-won-the-super-bowl
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It’s revolting, but I am not on the table and don’t have to die to save the child, so I don’t know. At that moment maybe I would choose the baby.
Shows on television have mothers make that decision: they’d rather die. How it’s done should be humane, and it appears that it’s not.
Thousands of couples waiting to adopt should not use a law to force her to lose her life or have a child she doesn’t want. Her decision, her consequences. Maybe 30 years later when the adopted kid comes after her for an explanation she’ll be fine, full of regret, whatever——NOT my problem.
I can no longer believe you’re a libertarian...so there!
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alaskaone
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#10
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/26/2019 5:54 PMCopy HTML There are doctors... a lot of doctors... who have stated forthrightly and clearly that there is no scenario where a late trimester baby threatens the life or health of the mother as much as an abortion at that stage does. C-sections are safer and work. I hope I have been successful in explaining why I, and about half the rest of the nation, are so appalled by what has become legal in NY and the comments of the virginia gov., and planned parenthood itself. They've legalized everything kermit goznell did. What happened to safe, legal and rare? Stats suggest there are about 6,000 3rd trimester abortions occuring in this country every year. Out of morbid curiousity, I sought out a video of one. It took a very, very long time to find online. Then, with more searching, I found a second trimester abortion. I wish I hadn't. Come to the Dark Side.
We have cookies.
The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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Nickel
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#11
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/26/2019 9:20 PMCopy HTML We’re perhaps talking past each other.
I abhor what some people think and do by way of persuasion, but steadfastly support a woman’s body being her own and her right to make good, bad, and ugly decisions for which the consequences are hers to bear. I grew up with coat hanger options and women risking death over a pregnancy, not to mention the suicides.
Just because a law says they can’t, doesn’t mean she won’t find an escape, and if her doubts born of social pressure carry her into late term, or giving birth, she won’t be the first to bury a shoebox.
No one else is in her slippers.
I seriously doubt the pro life folks can design a law that’s enforceable. Why don’t they remember what it was like before Roe?
Casting aside all the endless possibilities, freedom remains a constant. Is she cattle we can herd into giving birth with the law on our side or is she a human in circumstances we can’t fathom who should be allowed to choose her pursuit of happiness as we pursue ours?
Children are a gift from God, but not everyone sees it that way. Abused children are still around though physicians are required to report, laws against have had no deterrent value. Exercises in futility, you can’t legislate morality, as you know.
The sad, sad tales of abortion and its aftermath are enough punishment and more preventive than yet another unenforceable law that takes freedom away from women unable to keep their wits about them at a crucial moment.
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alaskaone
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#12
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/27/2019 7:52 PMCopy HTML I understand your arguments and rationale. I even think they are valid through the first trimester. But then things start getting dodgy. I think we can agree that if a fetus is viable outside the mom, it's a person and thus protected by law... or should be. Come to the Dark Side.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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Nickel
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#13
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/28/2019 6:59 PMCopy HTML Yes, we agree.
I agree with everything you’ve said except taking the decision away from the woman. As much as I disagree with the choices others make with their lives, I cannot advocate taking the choice away from them, limited government and free country that we the people created and supposedly live in, even today. Every personal decision a majority takes away dramatically changes the country.
Tipping the scales....when they would balance themselves if left alone. Prohibition of alcohol isn’t the only example. The war on drugs, poverty, colossal failures. Prostitution is only illegal in Vegas because it distracts gamblers reducing casino profits, and hookers are everywhere.....
Congress has so little to do, they create problems to solve.
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alaskaone
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#14
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：02/28/2019 10:19 PMCopy HTML Of course we agree, my friend. We're merely miscommunicating a bit. We, the nation, that is... had arrived at a mutually unsatisfactory arrangment... abortion being legal up to the point of fetal viablity. After that... it's murder. If someone assaults a pregnant woman thereby causing a miscarriage... regardless of the point of gestation... murder. What the democrats have done is tossed all that in the shitter and this is what they seem unable to get into their thick skulls; we really do regard it as murder, premeditated and heinous in every way. We were willing to call it a truce, so long as the fetus wasn't viable either due to defect or insufficient development. We were accepting of, and even agreed to, however reluctantly and queasily, everything you said. It was a solid and enduring truce that has lasted for decades... with minor negotiating back and forth and an occasional asshole going too far... on both sides. Even now, I am willing... and I speculate most every other anti-abortion person is, too, am willing to return to the truce. None of us, however, are going to accept the killing of babies from the point of viability to post-birth. That is never, ever going to happen. NY, the gov. of virginia and the democrats have committed an act of war, essentially. I suspect they've given trump the next election. Come to the Dark Side.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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Nickel
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#15
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Re：Here's to you, New York, New York Date Posted：03/02/2019 9:31 PMCopy HTML Friends again, how sweet. I think we’re done with this one.
It was wrong of me to say that she should have no rights to the baby she or the doctor wants to abort. Again, personal preference and a failure to let others live as they choose. I’m a work in progress.....
If the state forces the child on her, will the state be held responsible for supporting her and the child? Maybe that’s the unsavory reason behind passing the latest changes states are making.
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