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| Title: Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? | |
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alaskaone
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Date Posted：03/06/2009 9:28 AMCopy HTML I'm just so curious about that. Here is a program funded by a flat tax on the poorest demographic, the proceeds of which are given to the wealthiest demographic... and hardly anyone objects.
Welfare money is collected by a tax on working people, some of the proceeds of which go to non-working people, i.e., people on welfare. It's true that the feds have lied about SS from the very beginning back in 1935. First they said it was like 'insurance'. That's even what they called it at first, "Old Age Insurance". Today, 85+ years later, SS still lies about it's own nature; we're told we each have an account from which we'll get such and such an amount when we're old. But the supreme court of the US has ruled... not once but twice... that no one has any such thing. Since the Supreme Court ranks higher than the SS administration, that means SS is lying. Why is most everyone so reluctant to call a spade, "a spade"? Is it because they would have to admit and accept that they've been defrauded? Cheated? Is it because of the shame that normal people would feel for being on welfare? I don't see that being ashamed of being on welfare when, in fact, you were tricked into it is necessary. Good grief, several generations have been tricked, lied to... conned. So why is it no one will admit that SS is welfare? Come to the Dark Side.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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xgunny
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#31
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：03/07/2009 9:48 PMCopy HTML And now it is going to suck the life out of people in order to give money to other people who don't really need it. "As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never point the wrong way."
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Charles_Brown
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#32
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：03/08/2009 5:16 AMCopy HTML The thing is, even if Social Security is welfare, and even if you get everyone to admit it, it doesn't matter, you are not going to do away with it, the people who are paying into it now are determined to get their money back out, and the ones that are receiving it, are not going to give it up because they feel deserving of it. So, what is the point? Why gripe about it when nothing is going to be done to change it.
Nice guys finish.
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alaskaone
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#33
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：03/08/2009 6:13 AMCopy HTML Why gripe about it when nothing is going to be done to change it?
That's a bit self-fullfilling, is it not? The program is unjust and is going to ignite a rebellion eventually. Why let it go that far? Why not means test it, phase it out and replace it with something more sensible? Come to the Dark Side.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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alaskaone
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#34
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/22/2015 8:50 PMCopy HTML The 11 million people who receive Social Security disability face steep benefit cuts next year — unless Congress acts, the government said Wednesday. The trustees that oversee Social Security said the disability trust fund will run out of money in late 2016, right in the middle of a presidential campaign. That would trigger an automatic 19% cut in benefits... The trustees said the retirement fund has enough money to pay full benefits until 2035, a year later than last year's report. At that point, Social Security will collect enough in payroll taxes to pay about 75% of benefits. cont... http://www.businessinsider.com/social-security-disability-fund-date-2015-7 Come to the Dark Side.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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katie5445
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#35
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/23/2015 2:20 AMCopy HTML About that money being used for welfare and if it is? How many of us use money from Peter to pay Paul whether private or in business? How many govt. agencies, banks, investment companies, etc. do the same? I would say very wealthy people do that all the time.
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tommytalldog
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#36
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/23/2015 10:44 AMCopy HTML Well, I guess you could call it welfare but only after you receive more $ than you put in. It is a Ponzi scheme & somehow old white guys think they deserve everything they get. I'm not giving it back either. Tdog Live respected, die regretted
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govols
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#37
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/23/2015 10:24 PMCopy HTML Social Security isn't "welfare," in my mind, because it ISN'T means tested. If the tax that supposedly funds it were levied upon all personal income, and then the benefit "means tested," major welfare. At its inception it was welfare because the those who got it had never paid into it. Today it is welfare when granted to those who never paid into it, but those numbers are fairly few, I suppose. They'll grow.
For the most part, in my mind, it's a mandatory "defined contribution" national pension program that the administrator has plundered for a few generations. |
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oldarmybear
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#38
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/24/2015 11:06 PMCopy HTML SS is about one third of my retirement income. The rest comes from my army retirement pay, a small disability check from VA, and A retirement check from MO DOC. I am forced to live on almost $60k a year.
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alaskaone
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#39
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/25/2015 3:53 PMCopy HTML Reply to govols (07/23/2015 1:24 PM) For the most part, in my mind, it's a mandatory "defined contribution" national pension program that the administrator has plundered for a few generations. From inception, you mean. Government programs generally harm a lot of people a little bit while helping a few people a lot. Not really a good way of doing things, to my way of thinking.
Come to the Dark Side.
We have cookies.
The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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alaskaone
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#40
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/25/2015 3:55 PMCopy HTML Reply to katie5445 (07/22/2015 5:20 PM) About that money being used for welfare and if it is? How many of us use money from Peter to pay Paul whether private or in business? How many govt. agencies, banks, investment companies, etc. do the same? I would say very wealthy people do that all the time.
Can you not think of a better way? Come to the Dark Side.
We have cookies.
The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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katie5445
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#41
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/25/2015 6:23 PMCopy HTML If anyone can get away with it, it seems to be Donald Trump or pick a govt. Can you tell me you've never taken money out of one fund to pay another bill hoping to "catch up," since you have left your parents home? Look at France, need money, tax the wealthy at 70%, the articles about the French rich leaving in droves didn't happen a handful, many govts. including ours can get what they need to replace money taken from Peter to pay Paul and replace, most businesses and people cannot. Is it a good system not if you cannot be 100% assured that Paul will be paid back and either on time or you cannot afford the hit if not.
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alaskaone
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#42
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/28/2015 6:41 AMCopy HTML Reply to katie5445 (07/25/2015 9:22 AM)
If anyone can get away with it, it seems to be Donald Trump or pick a govt. Can you tell me you've never taken money out of one fund to pay another bill hoping to "catch up," since you have left your parents home? Look at France, need money, tax the wealthy at 70%, the articles about the French rich leaving in droves didn't happen a handful, many govts. including ours can get what they need to replace money taken from Peter to pay Paul and replace, most businesses and people cannot. Is it a good system not if you cannot be 100% assured that Paul will be paid back and either on time or you cannot afford the hit if not. It would be swell, I suppose, if I could point a gun at people and take their money... or even take their money before it ever reaches their pocket thus alleviating the necessity of guns altogether. No. Actually, no. I possess a moral and ethical compass that forbids such behavior. But the relentless greed of governments and the mismanagement of financial resources by individuals isn't exactly the subject here. What I asked you was, is there no better way to address the core "problems" that SS was allegedly created to address? I know the real reason FDR shat social security upon us. That doesn't mean his stated reason was completely fabricated. That piece of filth FDR was, in fact, quite good at holding up actual problems as rationale for pretty much anything he wanted to do no matter how stupid, vile or treasonous. That said, a flat tax upon the poorest demographic groups to give money to the wealthiest... that's a vile scheme that no rational, ethical person could possibly support once they understand the true nature of it and the subtle (and not so subtle) corruption it imposes upon society. So, as a rational and ethical person, Katie, design us a system that is acceptable. Come to the Dark Side.
We have cookies.
The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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Hayekian
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#43
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/28/2015 9:39 AMCopy HTML I agree that: 1. Social Security and Medicare are welfare. 2. They benefit the wealthiest demographic at the expense of all other demographics in the nation. Based on those two observations, I believe they need to be abolished. If we are to have a means tested welfare safety net, then the government that handles the safety net ought to ensure that there are not duplicated services. Why have Obamacare, Medicaid, Medicare, etc. etc. etc? Makes no sense at all ... Comment: Part of the present problem in Washington is the lack of compromise.
Response: It's always better for the bully when the bullied does not resist, isn't it?
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alaskaone
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#44
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/28/2015 12:07 PMCopy HTML Reply to Hayekian (07/28/2015 12:39 AM) I agree that: 1. Social Security and Medicare are welfare. 2. They benefit the wealthiest demographic at the expense of all other demographics in the nation. Based on those two observations, I believe they need to be abolished. If we are to have a means tested welfare safety net, then the government that handles the safety net ought to ensure that there are not duplicated services. Why have Obamacare, Medicaid, Medicare, etc. etc. etc? Makes no sense at all ... Some of us suspect that the true purpose of obamacare, a program blatantly and spectacularly stupid, is to pave the way for some sort of US version of Britain's NHS. Bring the entire healthcare industry to its knees in chaos, then unka sam rides into town with a 'solution' for the problem he's actually responsible for creating. But then I'm a cynical bastard. Come to the Dark Side.
We have cookies.
The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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WRS10
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#45
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/28/2015 7:24 PMCopy HTML Why can't people admit that social security is welfare?
Maybe there is a social stigma attached to welfare so people will deny reality in order to avoid the stigma. |
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katie5445
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#46
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/30/2015 3:11 PMCopy HTML Persons on welfare do not contribute to SS, if you live long enough you collect more than you put in but only 15% of the population is over 65, millions do not live to collect. If you do not want a safety net for the retired every employer should must offer a pension as a benefit, just as most employed now expect health insurance as a benefit, most of you could not afford it if it was not offered through your employer, just as most of you could not save enough money if you happen to have a long retirement life. Most retirement benefits alone won't last you through a long life either.
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alaskaone
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#47
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/31/2015 3:46 AMCopy HTML While engaging in the mundane task of gathering financial
statements for a “secure retirement” meeting with my husband’s and my
adviser, this Baby Boomer stumbled upon documented proof that our nation
does not have the guts to confront one of its most serious economic
problems. The realization came when I pulled from my files a document
statement innocently titled, “Your Social Security Statement.”
At first glance, the statement did not appear menacing. I was told I
could expect to receive a benefit of “about $2,136 a month” upon
reaching age 70 — which certainly seems like good news. But immediately I
thought of a parallel of President Obama’s infamous Obamacare promise:
“If you like your Social Security, you can keep your Social Security.”
Then, as if on cue, I saw an asterisk with the following message:
The law governing benefit amounts may change because, by 2033, the
payroll taxes collected will be enough to pay only about 77 percent of
scheduled benefits.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421790/social-security-bankruptcy-statement-baby-boomers Now, in 2009 the same footnote predicted 78% by 2041. Now it's a percent lower and eight years earlier. A good bet would be the trend will continue... next year 75% by 2030. In 5 years perhaps they will confess to 70% by 2025? Make your plans accordingly. Come to the Dark Side.
We have cookies.
The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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nofencesfacing
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#48
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/31/2015 10:56 AMCopy HTML Why can't people admit that social security is welfare?
Well alaskaone, I guess it is the same reason you cannot admit that you are on welfare. |
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alaskaone
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#49
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/31/2015 12:58 PMCopy HTML Still waiting for your address... got a mod of about 89 prisoners for you to take care of.
Come to the Dark Side.
We have cookies.
The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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katie5445
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#50
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/31/2015 2:53 PMCopy HTML I will be dead in 2033 and I don't worry about people in the future, that is their lot, you can't control from the grave.
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katie5445
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#51
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：07/31/2015 2:57 PMCopy HTML What I would worry about is the state of the earth in 2033, not if there is enough money but if there is enough quality air, water and if folks haven't all been raped, starved, shot, bombed or terrorized in some way! Never money. That is where my attitude turns to conservative, I got mine, you get yours, I'm brown bread.
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alaskaone
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#52
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：08/01/2015 1:59 AMCopy HTML Reply to katie5445 (07/31/2015 5:53 AM) I will be dead in 2033 and I don't worry about people in the future, that is their lot, you can't control from the grave. Not even your own kids? Come to the Dark Side.
We have cookies.
The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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alaskaone
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#53
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：08/01/2015 2:00 AMCopy HTML Reply to katie5445 (07/31/2015 5:57 AM) What I would worry about is the state of the earth in 2033, not if there is enough money but if there is enough quality air, water and if folks haven't all been raped, starved, shot, bombed or terrorized in some way! Never money. That is where my attitude turns to conservative, I got mine, you get yours, I'm brown bread. Financial collapse means rioting in the cities, starvation, chaos. The Earth abides and has taken no notice of us. Come to the Dark Side.
We have cookies.
The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian
There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.”
― H.L. Mencken
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katie5445
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#54
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：08/01/2015 3:15 PMCopy HTML Why should I worry about what probably isn't going to happen when I'm dead, sorry don't get that, where does it stop 2050, 3000,3050?
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nofencesfacing
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#55
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：08/02/2015 4:11 PMCopy HTML Still waiting for your address... got a mod of about 89 prisoners for you to take care of.
I will be glad to. If you and your kind would get off welfare and become productive members of society that may eliminate the need and the desire for people to turn to crime. Or with the real help for you people that may enable us to develop better system in dealing with these people. We will never know until people actually back up their “belief” that government has to be smaller and also refuse to take welfare. |
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katie5445
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#56
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：08/02/2015 5:08 PMCopy HTML Alaska works that is not welfare even if it is from the govt. Welfare would be the $1800 plus check I read they received in oil royalties last year, does AK have a job with an oil company as well?
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nofencesfacing
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#57
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：08/02/2015 5:30 PMCopy HTML I am not sure what you are saying. My point is alaskaone knows that government is too big yet he takes a government job saying someone has to do that job. That may or not be but there are already too many government workers as it is. Alaskaone needs to find a real job and let one of the other deadbeats take that job. If real people did this then government would not be too big. Alaskaone is just a wannabe real person. Until he gets a backbone it is just his dream. I would have loved to take a government job but I wanted to live in the real world with other responsible people. Also, the government is running a deficit to create jobs. Those are welfare jobs also. Welfare would be the $1800 plus check I read they received in oil royalties last year, does AK have a job with an oil company as well? Yes, that is my point. The state government of |
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katie5445
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#58
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：08/02/2015 5:44 PMCopy HTML Yes I know and he gets alot of flak for working for an institution he claims is going to end the US, still in all he works. I think the word is hypocrite and of course he could have chosen another field, he expects the poor to get educated and "better" themselves and I am sure there were plenty of opportunities for him to do so as well in the good ole USA where any man can achieve the American dream if they try.......you either stand for something or you stand for nothing or put your money where your mouth is. His bashing of the govt. and govt. services is extremely unimpressive.
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katie5445
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#59
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：08/02/2015 5:47 PMCopy HTML By the way, the govt. does not pay Alaska his salary/benefits, the taxpayers do, which is even more of a piss take.
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nofencesfacing
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#60
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Re：Why can't people admit that social security is welfare? Date Posted：08/02/2015 6:02 PMCopy HTML By the way, the govt. does not pay Alaska his salary/benefits, the taxpayers do, which is even more of a piss take.
That would be unborn taxpayers. |
