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alaskaone
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Date Posted:05/26/2010 4:01 PMCopy HTML

AMERICA'S NATIONAL DEBT
TOPS $13,000,000,000,000;
DEBT PER TAXPAYER - $117,975;
US DEBT TO GDP RATIO - 90.3%


None of that includes unfunded liabilities, promises the federal government has made, in the form of social security, medicare and obamacare... among others, I'm sure.  Last figure I saw which included those was months ago; -$107,000,000,000,000.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
nofencesfacing Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #91
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/06/2010 6:36 PMCopy HTML

They only got to step one.  How is that following the plan to pay off the national debt when they did not get to the step that pays off the national debt? 

 

Clinton got to the next step.  He had us working towards paying off the national debt.  Are you saying that was bad?  If so why is that bad?  Why is completing a plan that works to pay off debt a bad thing?

 

Oh, and please give me your answer again on how the spending in WWII did not end the Great Depression because some people thought that after the war the Great Depression would come back.  But those people were wrong. 

 

nofencesfacing Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #92
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/06/2010 6:51 PMCopy HTML

Also tell me which congressman sits down to writes the check to pay the bills. 

codify Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #93
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/06/2010 7:21 PMCopy HTML

Clinton Newt Gingrich and Co. got to the next step.  He had us working towards paying off the national debt.  Are you saying that was bad?  If so why is that bad?  Why is completing a plan that works to pay off debt a bad thing?



nfff you do realize if we paid off our debts, there would not be any money in circulation. And actually there is only a fraction of money in circulation needed to pay off our debts.
nofencesfacing Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #94
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/06/2010 7:40 PMCopy HTML

codify

Good points.

 

I am sorry I should have said Clinton and the Democrat Congress were reducing spending rate.  Then four years later Clinton and the Republican Congress were reducing the spending rate. 

 

On the moeny suply - the money supply for the world does not have to be the dollar.  In the last 60 years we have printed more that enough dollars.  The same can be said about our military.  We do not have to be the world’s policeman.  WWII has been over for a few years now.  The rest of the world should have recovered by now and can fend for itself.

 

Also, with all the things we have promised the boomers for their retirement the surplus would have been offset.  That is part of the problem now.  The surplus from Social Security is gone now.  We are pulling money out instead of adding funds to the General Fund.  That is one of the reason the debt is expanding so fast now.

codify Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #95
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/06/2010 8:21 PMCopy HTML

nff......

National debt is about 12 Trillion.


M2 Money Supply is only 8 Trillion. 

National debt is only a portion of the debt. There is private debt as well, along with unfunded liabilities and State and Local debt.


If there is only $20 in circulation to pay a $100 debt, what are we to do?
nofencesfacing Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #96
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/06/2010 10:05 PMCopy HTML

codify

The national debt is more than $12 trillion.  The boomers have promised the boomer way more than that just for their retirement.  Then we are voting ourselves even more, like the unfunded Rx program.

 

There are trillions of dollars oversea sitting in banks.  Our balance of trade deficit, our military spending oversea and our foreign aid programs have flooded the market with dollars for decades.  Foreign banks are afraid to cash in the dollars for varies reasons.  But that cannot last forever.

 

We owe more than the country is worth.

 

So the problems we have are even greater than you are presenting.

codify Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #97
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 3:44 AMCopy HTML

nff.......                           
 
http://www.chrismartenson.com/forum/relationship-between-m1-m2-and-total-credit-market-debt-and-gdp/30337

Year Debt to M2 ratio
1985 3.6
1990 4.3
1995 5.2
2000 5.78
2007 7.28
2008 6.27
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #98
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 5:41 PMCopy HTML

- $13,053,121,300,000.00
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
cathymv Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #99
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 5:46 PMCopy HTML

alaska:

now the prediction.. the economy will collapse when the bush tax cuts are allowed to expire:

Tax Hikes and the 2011 Economic Collapse

Today's corporate profits reflect an income shift into 2010. These profits will tumble next year, preceded most likely by the stock market.

 

People can change the volume, the location and the composition of their income, and they can do so in response to changes in government policies.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that the nine states without an income tax are growing far faster and attracting more people than are the nine states with the highest income tax rates. People and businesses change the location of income based on incentives.

John Fund of WSJ's Political Diary breaks down Tuesday's most interesting primary contests. Also, WSJ Columnist Mary Anastasia O'Grady translates the latest economic signals from Washington.

Likewise, who is gobsmacked when they are told that the two wealthiest Americans—Bill Gates and Warren Buffett—hold the bulk of their wealth in the nontaxed form of unrealized capital gains? The composition of wealth also responds to incentives. And it's also simple enough for most people to understand that if the government taxes people who work and pays people not to work, fewer people will work. Incentives matter.

People can also change the timing of when they earn and receive their income in response to government policies. According to a 2004 U.S. Treasury report, "high income taxpayers accelerated the receipt of wages and year-end bonuses from 1993 to 1992—over $15 billion—in order to avoid the effects of the anticipated increase in the top rate from 31% to 39.6%. At the end of 1993, taxpayers shifted wages and bonuses yet again to avoid the increase in Medicare taxes that went into effect beginning 1994."

Just remember what happened to auto sales when the cash for clunkers program ended. Or how about new housing sales when the $8,000 tax credit ended? It isn't rocket surgery, as the Ivy League professor said.

On or about Jan. 1, 2011, federal, state and local tax rates are scheduled to rise quite sharply. President George W. Bush's tax cuts expire on that date, meaning that the highest federal personal income tax rate will go 39.6% from 35%, the highest federal dividend tax rate pops up to 39.6% from 15%, the capital gains tax rate to 20% from 15%, and the estate tax rate to 55% from zero. Lots and lots of other changes will also occur as a result of the sunset provision in the Bush tax cuts.

Tax rates have been and will be raised on income earned from off-shore investments. Payroll taxes are already scheduled to rise in 2013 and the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) will be digging deeper and deeper into middle-income taxpayers. And there's always the celebrated tax increase on Cadillac health care plans. State and local tax rates are also going up in 2011 as they did in 2010. Tax rate increases next year are everywhere.

Now, if people know tax rates will be higher next year than they are this year, what will those people do this year? They will shift production and income out of next year into this year to the extent possible. As a result, income this year has already been inflated above where it otherwise should be and next year, 2011, income will be lower than it otherwise should be.

Also, the prospect of rising prices, higher interest rates and more regulations next year will further entice demand and supply to be shifted from 2011 into 2010. In my view, this shift of income and demand is a major reason that the economy in 2010 has appeared as strong as it has. When we pass the tax boundary of Jan. 1, 2011, my best guess is that the train goes off the tracks and we get our worst nightmare of a severe "double dip" recession.

In 1981, Ronald Reagan—with bipartisan support—began the first phase in a series of tax cuts passed under the Economic Recovery Tax Act (ERTA), whereby the bulk of the tax cuts didn't take effect until Jan. 1, 1983. Reagan's delayed tax cuts were the mirror image of President Barack Obama's delayed tax rate increases. For 1981 and 1982 people deferred so much economic activity that real GDP was basically flat (i.e., no growth), and the unemployment rate rose to well over 10%.

But at the tax boundary of Jan. 1, 1983 the economy took off like a rocket, with average real growth reaching 7.5% in 1983 and 5.5% in 1984. It has always amazed me how tax cuts don't work until they take effect. Mr. Obama's experience with deferred tax rate increases will be the reverse. The economy will collapse in 2011.

Consider corporate profits as a share of GDP. Today, corporate profits as a share of GDP are way too high given the state of the U.S. economy. These high profits reflect the shift in income into 2010 from 2011. These profits will tumble in 2011, preceded most likely by the stock market.

In 2010, without any prepayment penalties, people can cash in their Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs), Keough deferred income accounts and 401(k) deferred income accounts. After paying their taxes, these deferred income accounts can be rolled into Roth IRAs that provide after-tax income to their owners into the future. Given what's going to happen to tax rates, this conversion seems like a no-brainer.

The result will be a crash in tax receipts once the surge is past. If you thought deficits and unemployment have been bad lately, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Mr. Laffer is the chairman of Laffer Associates and co-author of "Return to Prosperity: How America Can Regain Its Economic Superpower Status" (Threshold, 2010).
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704113504575264513748386610.html?mod=rss_opinion_main



see ya
cathy

Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.....except for the election of Donald Trump.
Doe_Eyes Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #100
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 5:51 PMCopy HTML

- $13,053,121,300,000.00

$10,700,000,000,000.00 was inherited from the last administration.
The time is always right to do what is right.
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #101
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 5:55 PMCopy HTML

Hardly.  Congress, under the bush administration, added $4.899 trillion.

When bush left, congress had run up the debt to  $10.759 trillion.  As you can see, obama/congress will have spent more in less than 2 years than bush/congress did in 8.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #102
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 6:03 PMCopy HTML

Since post #98, the national debt under obama/congress has increased to $13,053,188,200,000.00... an increase of 66.9 million dollars in 22 minutes.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Doe_Eyes Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #103
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 6:03 PMCopy HTML

Alaska, when Obama took office the debt was at 10.7 trillion dollars, I didn't say that Bush ran it up, I said that Obama inherited that much, and he did, from the previous administration.
The time is always right to do what is right.
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #104
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 6:07 PMCopy HTML

I know what you said and you wished to imply the entire amount was run up by bush. 

In point of fact, it is congress that creates the budget and spends the money.  Much the same congress is still in office.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #105
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 6:09 PMCopy HTML

At this moment the federal government is spending money at the approximate rate of $3,040,909/minute
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #106
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 6:15 PMCopy HTML

One last figure for you all.  The federal government has made a lot of promises to give a lot of people a lot of money in the future.  These promises are called 'un-funded liabilities'.  As close as I can catch the figure, we owe

$109,014,868,000,000.00

That is in addition to the national debt.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Doe_Eyes Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #107
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 6:18 PMCopy HTML

You don't know what the hell I "wished".  I told exactly what is the truth.  I wished to convey that the whole 13 trillion you keep harping at, was not something President Obama and this congress has caused, that they inherited most of it from the previous administration and congress.  Tell the good folks how much of this is interest on the debt.  

 
The time is always right to do what is right.
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #108
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 6:52 PMCopy HTML

The 'current' congress is the previous congress... although a few new folks have been put into the feeding trough since the last elections.

Your meaning was plain enough, you wished to absolve your hero of all responsibility and blame the debt on the last asshole who was in the oval office.

My point is the assholes who ran up the debt are, by and large, still in office... house and senate and the pace of their spending has increased dramatically.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #109
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 7:00 PMCopy HTML

The largest federal expenditures are, in order;

1) medicare - $775.73 billion
2) social security - $687.5 billion
3) "defense" - $670.7 billion
4) interest payments on the debt - $195.7 billion
5) federal pensions - $192.3 billion


Interstingly, those 'earmarks' folks are always pointing at are only $18.255 billion
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 7:00 PMCopy HTML

Quit trying to interpret my posts Alaska, you are no better at it than others that try to do it.  I say what I mean and I mean what I say, and it does not require interpretation.   
The time is always right to do what is right.
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #111
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 7:02 PMCopy HTML

Perhaps if you wrote more clearly?  We have no choice but to interpret otherwise.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 7:13 PMCopy HTML

Myth No. 1: There is no Social Security trust fund. You may have heard this assertion so often that you'll be surprised to learn that there really IS a Social Security trust fund that collects our payroll taxes and invests the surplus. It's called the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance and Disability Insurance Trust Funds.

What isn't in the trust fund is a big hoard of cash.

Three-quarters of the money that's collected in Social Security taxes goes right out the door again in the form of benefits to Social Security recipients. The surplus that isn't needed to pay benefits is loaned to the federal government to pay for other programs.

In return for this loan, the trust fund gets IOUs in the form of special-issue, interest-paying Treasury bonds. The interest isn't paid in cash, however; the Treasury issues the fund additional bonds for the interest amount. In 2006, the fund was credited with more than $102 billion in interest; the total value of the securities is about $2 trillion. 

Critics often deride these bonds as "a bookkeeping entry" or a fiction, but they're real obligations of the U.S. government, said Steve Goss, Social Security's chief actuary. In the past, they've been cashed in when Social Security or its sister program, Medicare, temporarily ran low on funds. The last time was in the early 1980s.

"They're backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government," Goss said. "They're every bit as real . . . as any savings bond or Treasury bond any individual might hold in society."

The problem, of course, is that the government now owes the trust fund so much money -- and relies on its surplus so heavily -- that real problems will be created when it comes time to cash in those IOUs. Uncle Sam is going to need to find another source of income to replace the surplus (or cut spending, or borrow money from somewhere else), plus come up with cash to pay the bonds it's already issued.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/5mythsAboutSocialSecurity.aspx

Social Security isn't costing us money, unless you are counting the INTEREST owed by the federal government for borrowing money from it. 

The time is always right to do what is right.
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #113
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/07/2010 7:43 PMCopy HTML

Umm... not exactly.

Example;  You make $1.  You spend $1 and put an I.O.U. in your pocket.

Do you still have $1?
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #114
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/08/2010 5:26 PMCopy HTML

Around 5/26/2010 the national debt reached          $13,000,000,000,000.00
Today, 6/8/10, 2 weeks later, the national debt is  $13,057,425,000,000.00

An increase of, in a few moments, $58 billion dollars.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #115
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/09/2010 3:10 AMCopy HTML

Look at this mess of a news article.
DEBT RISE TO $19,600,000,000,000.00 BY 2015
It appears no one has any clue about anything. 

"The president's economic experts say a 1 percent increase in GDP can create almost 1 million jobs, and that 1 percent is what experts think we are losing because of the debt's massive drag on our economy," said Republican Representative Dave Camp, who publicized the report.

Economic experts think a 1% increase in GNP creates 1 million jobs?!  JFC!  These are the people running the show?! 

Look, the GDP is just a guestimate of the sum total of all the economic activity of all the people in the US.  This is basic economics 101... crap, it's high school economics, for gods sake.  The GDP is the measurement, the peoples economic activity is what's allegedly being measured.  Therefore, 1 million new jobs might increase the GDP by 1% but the notion that an increase in the GDP causes new job creation is just f'ing stupid.

Keynsian bastards always put the cart before the horses.  Is there nothing that will rid us of those idiots?

Meanwhile, lets do some figuring of our own, shall we?  Since this thread was created roughly 2 weeks ago, the national debt has increased by roughly $60 billion... roughly $30 billion/week.

There are roughly 52 weeks in a year.  So  $30 billion X 52 = $1,560,000,000,000 per year.

5 years from now:  $7,800,000,000,000

Add the current debt;  $13,059,200,000,000.00

Total:  -  $20,859,200,000,000 by 2015.

Who wants to take a wager about which figure will be more accurate, the feds or mine?

But wait, there's more.

At the moment unfunded future liabilities are over $109 trillion dollars.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
skrumpie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #116
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/09/2010 1:19 PMCopy HTML

Keynsian bastards always put the cart before the horses.  Is there nothing that will rid us of those idiots?

The only thing I can think of is restricting the vote to people who actually pay taxes.
Try to remember the kind of September when men weren't girls and girls weren't fellas..................
Doe_Eyes Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #117
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/09/2010 1:34 PMCopy HTML

Example;  You make $1.  You spend $1 and put an I.O.U. in your pocket.

Do you still have $1?

It's more like you make $2, your brother borrows $1 and gives you an IOU.  You spend the other $1, so do you trust that your brother will pay you back, will he pay back the interest he owes, because it's the interest he owes you that is getting him into trouble.  Social Security pays for itself and then some.  It may not always do that, but at this time, it does, so you can't say it's an expense of the general fund.  Social Security loans the general fund money, that's what the general fund owes, the interest and principle.   
The time is always right to do what is right.
constval Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #118
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/09/2010 2:49 PMCopy HTML

Reply to skrumpie (06/09/2010 8:19 AM)

Keynsian bastards always put the cart before the horses.  Is there nothing that will rid us of those idiots?

The only thing I can think of is restricting the vote to people who actually pay taxes.


A girl can dream...
Leftie men are always so thin-skinned. They probably have small hands, as well.
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #119
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/09/2010 6:26 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Doe_Eyes (06/09/2010 4:34 AM)

Example;  You make $1.  You spend $1 and put an I.O.U. in your pocket.

Do you still have $1?

It's more like you make $2, your brother borrows $1 and gives you an IOU.  You spend the other $1, so do you trust that your brother will pay you back, will he pay back the interest he owes, because it's the interest he owes you that is getting him into trouble.  Social Security pays for itself and then some.  It may not always do that, but at this time, it does, so you can't say it's an expense of the general fund.  Social Security loans the general fund money, that's what the general fund owes, the interest and principle.   

You're dreaming.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #120
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:06/09/2010 8:21 PMCopy HTML

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
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