-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Title: -$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast
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Date Posted：05/26/2010 4:01 PMCopy HTML

AMERICA'S NATIONAL DEBT
TOPS $13,000,000,000,000;
DEBT PER TAXPAYER - $117,975;
US DEBT TO GDP RATIO - 90.3%

None of that includes unfunded liabilities, promises the federal government has made, in the form of social security, medicare and obamacare... among others, I'm sure. Last figure I saw which included those was months ago; -$107,000,000,000,000.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/09/2010 8:27 PMCopy HTML

Reply to alaskaone (06/09/2010 3:21 PM)

Doesn't sound like an 'era of responsibility' to me, either.

Try to remember the kind of September when men weren't girls and girls weren't fellas..................

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/09/2010 8:45 PMCopy HTML

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/09/2010 8:51 PMCopy HTML

If you watch this video... note how they're talking about 'billions', not trillions.  I'm thinking it was recorded a few years ago.

Isn't that nice?  That is exactly the sort of republicrat we need to run out of town on a rail and under a flag of shame.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/09/2010 9:24 PMCopy HTML

There is a significant difference between the reported budget deficit and the change in debt. The key differences are: 1) The Social Security surplus, which reduces the "off-budget" deficit often reported in the media; and 2) Non-budgeted spending, such as for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The debt increased by approximately $550 billion on average each year during the 2003-2007 period, but then increased over $1 trillion during FY 2008.
The cumulative debt of the United States in the past 8 completed fiscal years was approximately $4.3 trillion, or about 43% of the total national debt of ~$10.0 trillion as of September 2008.

Interest expense

Budgeted net interest on the public debt was approximately $240 billion in fiscal years 2007 and 2008. This represented approximately 9.5% of government spending. Interest was the fourth largest single budgeted disbursement category, after defense, Social Security, and Medicare.[62] Despite higher debt levels, this declined to $189 billion in 2009 or approximately 5% of spending, due to lower interest rates. Average interest rates declined due to the crisis from 1.6% in 2008 to 0.3% in 2009.[63]
During FY2008, the government also accrued a non-cash interest expense of $212 billion for intra-governmental debt, primarily the Social Security Trust Fund, for a total interest expense of $454 billion.[64] This accrued interest is added to the Social Security Trust Fund and therefore the national debt each year and will be paid to Social Security recipients in the future.
Public debt owned by foreigners has increased to approximately 50% of the total or approximately $3.4 trillion.[65] As a result, nearly 50% of the interest payments are now leaving the country, which is different from past years when interest was paid to U.S. citizens holding the public debt. Interest expenses are projected to grow dramatically as the U.S. debt increases and interest rates rise from very low levels in 2009 to more typical historical levels. CBO estimates that nearly half of the debt increases over the 2009-2019 period will be due to interest.[66]
Should interest rates return to historical averages, the interest cost would increase dramatically. Historian Niall Ferguson described the risk that foreign investors would demand higher interest rates as the U.S. debt levels increase over time in a November 2009 interview.[67]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Recent_additions_to_the_public_debt_of_the_United_States

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:31 AMCopy HTML

-$13,063,963,000,000 

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:33 AMCopy HTML

$10,700,000,000,000.00 was inherited from the last administration. 

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:38 AMCopy HTML

Not really... but then you know that.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:45 AMCopy HTML

Did the last administration help to reduce the debt to the point of zero?  No, they did not.  Did they leave a National debt of $10,700,000,000,000.00  for the next administration....why yes, yes they did, and a whole lot more crap, and we are still feeling the affects of them.   But then, you know that.

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:46 AMCopy HTML

I was just looking into mr starks background a bit.  Wanted to learn more about the kind of mind that thinks debt = wealth... a stereotypical keynsian fallacy.

Apparently, he changed his mind about that a few years later.  This from wiki;  

"Stark voted against the bipartisan May 2008 farm subsidy bill, which was supported by most House Democrats and over half of House Republicans, in part because of its cost.[24]He also voted against both readings of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, which gave $700 billion dollars to troubled investment banks. Stark argued that "the proposed bailout will only help reckless speculators who have been caught on the wrong side of the come line." Criticizing the bill as corporate welfare, he said "The bill before us today is basically the same three-page Wall Street give-away first put forth by President Bush" before the vote on the first bailout.[25][26]"

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:49 AMCopy HTML

Pete Stark....what a joke! Not the brightest bulb.   

I dont believe that he has changed. But who am I?

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/10/2010 6:05 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Doe_Eyes (06/09/2010 8:45 PM)

Did the last administration help to reduce the debt to the point of zero?  No, they did not.  Did they leave a National debt of $10,700,000,000,000.00  for the next administration....why yes, yes they did, and a whole lot more crap, and we are still feeling the affects of them.   But then, you know that.

I sometimes wonder, briefly... in dull moments, why you like to play these games... then I remember you are a (modern)liberal and worse, a keynesian.

As you should know, it is congress that spends money, not presidents although presidents get the dubious 'honor' of signing the check someone else has written.

Bush, a keynesian like yourself, and his republicrat accomplices certainly spent a bundle.  If I recall correctly, in the 8 years under bush's watch, about $5 trillion was added to the national debt.

mr obama is running the show now and has added $2,363,965,000,000 in only 1.5 years.  That should be, even in the warped and insane world of keynsianism, an alarming acceleration in spending.  Took bush and the republicrats 8 years to add $5 trillion.  Obama and the republicrats have spent almost half that in just 18 months.

Projecting a bit and assuming no further acceleration in spending, obama and the republicrats are spending roughly $131,331,388,888.89 per month which means in 14.7 more months, mr. obama and the republicrats will have added to the debt in only 2.7 years what it took bush and the republicrats 8 years to add.

democrats, republicans... they are the same; republicrats.  They are the problem.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/10/2010 6:16 AMCopy HTML

it is congress that spends money, not presidents 

and yet in the 2nd next paragraph, you state......

mr obama  is running the show now  and has added $2,363,965,000,000

So, how can it be that Obama has added anything, since he is only president, not the one who spends the money?   I know it really burns your bottom when I point out your inconsistencies, but hey, what else do I have to do before bed.

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

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I sometimes wonder, briefly... in dull moments, why you like to play these games... then I remember you are a (modern)liberal and worse, a keynesian.

You may recall it was you who chose to place the blame of the entire national debt upon bush II.  I merely continued what you started as that is how you chose to frame the discussion.  The actual and complete paragraph you refer to as my "inconsistancy" goes like this;

"mr obama is running the show now and has added $2,363,965,000,000 in only 1.5 years.  That should be, even in the warped and insane world of keynsianism, an alarming acceleration in spending.  Took bush and the republicrats 8 years to add $5 trillion.  Obama and the republicrats have spent almost half that in just 18 months."

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/10/2010 6:55 AMCopy HTML

You posted this two weeks ago.  Our debt is probably higher by now.

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

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Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/10/2010 6:57 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Aprildaze (06/09/2010 9:55 PM)

You posted this two weeks ago.  Our debt is probably higher by now.

I did the calculations in #133 a few minutes ago, April, and based them on the debt clock, the link to which is in the O.P.

It's impossible to be accurate under 100 million dollars because the numbers are spinning by so fast.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/11/2010 6:28 AMCopy HTML

-$13,068,482,000,000

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/eyeblast-tv-staff/2010/06/09/video-bernanke-says-nothing-table-point-tackle-fiscal-crisis

Still no hint of a plan to get their spending under control. 

I learned yesterday that the famous 'budget surplus' during the Clinton administration... none of it was applied to the federal debt.  It was all spent and the debt increased.

Pretty disappointing.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/11/2010 1:45 PMCopy HTML

Alaskaone
Hardly.  Congress, under the bush administration, added $4.899 trillion. 

When bush left, congress had run up the debt to $10.759 trillion.  As you can see, obama/congress will have spent more in less than 2 years than bush/congress did in 8.
 
You are wrong.  Under a real president and a Democrat Congress and then under a Republican Congress the national debt was on the way to being paid off.  

Even Bush said if selected he would pay off the national debt in the 00’s.  So the $10.759 was what Bush spent extra.  Then add the $8 trillion he added with the unfunded Rx program.  Then there was the war in Afghanistan that he refused to win so any cost to fight that war after Bush was out of office is on Bush.  Then we are still spending money on the war for no reason.  That goes against Bush.  Then there is the cost to get us out of Bush’s global economic meltdown.  That is on Bush.  
 
Then there is the cost of the all the Social Security program.  Now that is not all Bush’s fault!
 
So what is this junk you are throwing out there that Obama is running up the national debt?  So far all the spending and all the debt came from Bush or from the liability from the Social Security programs.

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

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Reply to nofencesfacing (06/11/2010 4:45 AM)

Alaskaone
Hardly.  Congress, under the bush administration, added $4.899 trillion. 

When bush left, congress had run up the debt to $10.759 trillion.  As you can see, obama/congress will have spent more in less than 2 years than bush/congress did in 8.
 
You are wrong.  Under a real president and a Democrat Congress and then under a Republican Congress the national debt was on the way to being paid off.

Um, no... sorry.  I am not wrong. During Clintons two terms, he and the republicrats increased the national debt by roughly $1.63 trillion dollars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

Even Bush said if selected he would pay off the national debt in the 00’s.  So the $10.759 was what Bush spent extra. 

Um, no... sorry.  The national debt under bush and the republicrats increased by $4.899 trillion.

Then add the $8 trillion he added with the unfunded Rx program.

That would be placed under future, unfunded liabilities which, last I looked, is well over $112 trillion dollars.  I've often tried to combine the two... the current national debt + unfunded future liabilities but folks seemed to object so I stopped.

Then there was the war in Afghanistan that he refused to win so any cost to fight that war after Bush was out of office is on Bush.  Then we are still spending money on the war for no reason.  That goes against Bush.

Obama is the current president and as such is also the commander and chief of the military.  It is within his authority to cease both wars.  He chooses not to.  At any rate, the funding for the wars is included in the $4.899 trillion he, bush, added to the national debt.

Then there is the cost to get us out of Bush’s global economic meltdown.  That is on Bush.  

He certainly played a role however the blame for the financial meltdown lay with congress, not the president, and has it's foundations in fdr's 'new deal'.
 
Then there is the cost of the all the Social Security program.  Now that is not all Bush’s fault!

No, that is fdr and congresses fault.
 
So what is this junk you are throwing out there that Obama is running up the national debt?  So far all the spending and all the debt came from Bush or from the liability from the Social Security programs.

Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge. I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which, by the way is now roughly 

-$13,072,660,000,000.00

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

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So far all the spending and all the debt came from Bush or from the liability from the Social Security programs.

Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge.

You didn't dispute what he said, you just made some silly comment that means absolutely nothing.  Why not address his statement?  Isn't it true that much of what the spending is now came from programs implemented under the Bush administration?  The wars we are involved in, they just broke the trillion dollar mark, why not discuss that. 

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/12/2010 6:17 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Doe_Eyes (06/11/2010 8:51 PM)

So far all the spending and all the debt came from Bush or from the liability from the Social Security programs.

Obama and the republicrats ;;are currently in charge.

You didn't dispute what he said, you just made some silly comment that means absolutely nothing.  Why not address his statement?  Isn't it true that much of what the spending is now came from programs implemented under the Bush administration?  The wars we are involved in, they just broke the trillion dollar mark, why not discuss that. 

I addressed every point, consecutively.  I really don't care what the spending is on, I care about the spending in total.  Given the history of congress and the presidents, if they weren't invading Iraq and Afghanistan, then they'd be invading some other defensless third world rathole.

It appears you wish to hold the bush administration responsible for everything while holding the obama administration responsible for nothing.  That appears a tad irrational, not to mention hypocritical.  Do please correctly me if I am misunderstanding you.

If we hold bush responsible for social security then we must also hold obama responsible for social security.  Both are irrational because social security was created by fdr in 1935.  Bush, of course, bears responsibility for 'prescription drugs'... however the cost of the prescription drugs program is just a bucket of sea water thrown on the deck of the Titanic.

Quite frankly, I care little about what  republicrat asshole currently squats in the oval office.  Congress is the problem.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/12/2010 6:49 AMCopy HTML

alaskaone
Um, no... sorry.  I am not wrong. During Clintons two terms, he and the republicrats increased the national debt by roughly $1.63 trillion dollars.
 
"On the way to paying off the debt" means on the way to pay off the debt.   The hugh growth in spending that started under Reagan and Bush41 was being reversed.  We were using the SS surplus to buy up bonds instead of hiding the deficit.  Even Bush43 said we were going to pay off the debt in the 00’s. 
 
Um, no... sorry.  The national debt under bush and the republicrats increased by $4.899 trillion.
 
So when you give the money to the bank to pay off you car and the banker tells you that you now owe twice and much on the car as before you do not question that the car should be paid off?   If not I would love to be your banker.  
 
Come on, promising to pay off the national debt and then more than doubling it.
 
That would be placed under future, unfunded liabilities which, last I looked, is well over $112 trillion dollars.  I've often tried to combine the two... the current national debt + unfunded future liabilities but folks seemed to object so I stopped.
 
Just because you gave up on accounting does not mean that I did.  So we have the $10.759 trillion balance instead of zero.  Then add the $8 trillion  unfunded Rx program.  So far my numbers add up.  Sorry about you given up on accounting.
 
Obama is the current president and as such is also the commander and chief of the military.  It is within his authority to cease both wars.  He chooses not to.  At any rate, the funding for the wars is included in the $4.899 trillion he, bush, added to the national debt.
 
And how dumb would that be?  If I remember correctly we are trying to stop people from attacking us.  If you do not know anything about history please read the book “Godfather” or watch the move.  The cost of “run away, run away” is too high.
 
And how do you not get bin Laden when he was there for the taking?  That was a trick in itself.
 
He certainly played a role however the blame for the financial meltdown lay with congress, not the president, and has it's foundations in fdr's 'new deal'.
 
The Bush knew there was a problem.  He had to cope with the .com bubble so he knew the consequences.  But he did nothing to solve the problem.  A leader is supposed to lead, not bury his head in the sand.   
 
On FDR, wasn’t he a president?  So problems under Bush are not Bush’s fault because he was president, but because FDR was trying to save the Republic and did was FDR’s fault because he was president.  
 
FDR also ordered our military to take out Germany.  Things change.  We are no longer attacking Germany.  How many presidents and congresses have there been that should have corrected the problem with Social Security?  You know like paying off the national debt with the SS surplus.  But paying off the debt was not Reagan’s, Bush’s or Bush’s fault because they were presidents – unlike FDR who was president.  (I love beating a dead horse.)
 
Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge. I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which, by the way is now roughly Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge. I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which, by the way is now roughly Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge. I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which, by the way is now roughly -$13,072,660,000,000.00.
 
Once again I have shown that Bush is responsible for the debt and spending you talk of, plus trillions more.  All of your smoke and mirrors tricks will not change that.  
 
And please let me be your banker.

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/12/2010 7:23 AMCopy HTML

"On the way to paying off the debt" means on the way to pay off the debt. 
It doesn't matter what people say they're going to do, it's what they actually do that counts.

The hugh growth in spending that started under Reagan and Bush41 was being reversed.
No, it was merely retarded a bit... it was never actually reversed as is proven by the $1.63 trillion increase in the national debt.

We were using the SS surplus to buy up bonds instead of hiding the deficit.  Even Bush43 said we were going to pay off the debt in the 00’s. 
The 'ss surplus' was put into the general fund and spent.  And, as I said before, talk doesn't matter... action does.
 
So when you give the money to the bank to pay off you car and the banker tells you that you now owe twice and much on the car as before you do not question that the car should be paid off?   If not I would love to be your banker.  Come on, promising to pay off the national debt and then more than doubling it.
I really don't understand what you wrote there... it appears to be logical fallacy known as a Red Herring .  Would you please clarify?
 
Just because you gave up on accounting does not mean that I did.  So we have the $10.759 trillion balance instead of zero.  Then add the $8 trillion  unfunded Rx program.  So far my numbers add up.  Sorry about you given up on accounting.
Generally speaking, federal obligations are divided into two group; debt and future unfunded liabilities.  I did not create that distinction, I merely observe that it exists.  As I have stated several times, the national debt was roughly $5.727 trillion on the day that bush took office yet it appears you wish to hold him accountable for that $5.727 trillion.  If that is the case then you logically, must hold obama accountable for the roughly $10.626 trillion that existed when he took office.
 
Obama is the current president and as such is also the commander and chief of the military.  It is within his authority to cease both wars.  He chooses not to.  At any rate, the funding for the wars is included in the $4.899 trillion he, bush, added to the national debt.
 
And how dumb would that be?  If I remember correctly we are trying to stop people from attacking us.  If you do not know anything about history please read the book “Godfather” or watch the move.  The cost of “run away, run away” is too high.
Let me understand this... you wish me to learn about history by reading a fictional novel or watching a movie made from it?

Let me point out that if you feel the invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan are just lovely right now then you must also approve of the invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan when bush initiated them.  Is that not so?
 
And how do you not get bin Laden when he was there for the taking?  That was a trick in itself.
Guerrilla fighters have always been a problem for standing armies.
 

The Bush knew there was a problem.  He had to cope with the .com bubble so he knew the consequences.  But he did nothing to solve the problem.  A leader is supposed to lead, not bury his head in the sand.
The endless bubbles and busts our economy endures are the result of keynsian economic policies.  Economic policy is the responsibility of congress.   Bush is a keynsian, I doubt he comprehends the problem any more than any other keynsian does.
On FDR, wasn’t he a president?  So problems under Bush are not Bush’s fault because he was president, but because FDR was trying to save the Republic and did was FDR’s fault because he was president.  
I really can't make heads or tails out of those sentences.  Could you clarify?

How many presidents and congresses have there been that should have corrected the problem with Social Security?  
All of them.

You know like paying off the national debt with the SS surplus.
The 'ss surplus' was spent like any other tax revenue.

But paying off the debt was not Reagan’s, Bush’s or Bush’s fault because they were presidents – unlike FDR who was president.  (I love beating a dead horse.)
What is it with you and obama assaulting domestic herbivores?  Did you not suggest 'leaders should lead'?  The republicrats all the way back to FDR are responsible for the national debt and future unfunded liabilities... and the failure to prevent this catastrophy from occuring.
 
Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge.  I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which is now roughly -$13,072,660,000,000.00.
 
Once again I have shown that Bush is responsible for the debt and spending you talk of, plus trillions more.  All of your smoke and mirrors tricks will not change that.
If you say so.  
 
And please let me be your banker.
Dude, if I gave you a penny you'd probably bury it in a jar in the ground, hire some bloke to dig it up then declare you had decreased unemployment and boosted the economy.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/12/2010 4:49 PMCopy HTML

"On the way to paying off the debt" means on the way to pay off the debt. 
It doesn't matter what people say they're going to do, it's what they actually do that counts.
Clinton did not say he was going to pay down the national debt.  He was reducing spending.  The government had stopped issuing large denominations of government bonds.  The government was buying up government bonds.  He was “on the way to pay off the debt”.
 
The hugh growth in spending that started under Reagan and Bush41 was being reversed.
No, it was merely retarded a bit... it was never actually reversed as is proven by the $1.63 trillion increase in the national debt.
So the rate of spending was reduced?  The debt was not being doubled every eight years. Gee golly, I wish I had said that.
 
We were using the SS surplus to buy up bonds instead of hiding the deficit.  Even Bush43 said we were going to pay off the debt in the 00’s. 
The 'ss surplus' was put into the general fund and spent.  And, as I said before, talk doesn't matter... action does.
The SS surplus was put in the general fund and then more and more of it was being used to buy up government bonds.  It was like we were “on the way to paying off the debt”.
 
So when you give the money to the bank to pay off you car and the banker tells you that you now owe twice and much on the car as before you do not question that the car should be paid off?   If not I would love to be your banker.  Come on, promising to pay off the national debt and then more than doubling it.
I really don't understand what you wrote there... it appears to be logical fallacy known as a Red Herring .  Would you please clarify?
Sure, I am using the debt on you car as an example of the national debt.  When you do what is needed to pay off the car but find out you now owe more than twice what the debt was you should question your banker.  Your point of view is that because Bush was your “banker”/president we should not hold him accountable.  
Bush had a Republican and Democrat Congress the same as Clinton.  Under Bush spending was out of control.  Under Clinton we were reducing the rate government was growing and on the way to paying off the debt.  So look for what was different.  The difference was Bush.  So do not give me the BS that congress controls spending.  
 
Just because you gave up on accounting does not mean that I did.  So we have the $10.759 trillion balance instead of zero.  Then add the $8 trillion unfunded Rx program.  So far my numbers add up.  Sorry about you given up on accounting.
Generally speaking, federal obligations are divided into two group; debt and future unfunded liabilities.  I did not create that distinction, I merely observe that it exists.  As I have stated several times, the national debt was roughly $5.727 trillion on the day that bush took office yet it appears you wish to hold him accountable for that $5.727 trillion.  If that is the case then you logically, must hold obama accountable for the roughly $10.626 trillion that existed when he took office. 
Bush was going to pay off the national debt.  So at the end of his eight years in office the national debt was zero, right.  Of course not, Bush spent the surplus and then some and then Bush obligated us to spend even more after his eight years were up.  The trillions you are trying to charge Obama for are liabilities made under Bush.
 
And how dumb would that be?  If I remember correctly we are trying to stop people from attacking us.  If you do not know anything about history please read the book “Godfather” or watch the move.  The cost of “run away, run away” is too high.
Let me understand this... you wish me to learn about history by reading a fictional novel or watching a movie made from it?

Let me point out that if you feel the invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan are just lovely right now then you must also approve of the invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan when bush initiated them.  Is that not so?
No, I want you to learn that you do not appease countries or organizations that attack this country.  So off course I approved going after bin Laden and his organization.  
Of course I did not approve invading Iraq when alternative methods were available and we had a real war going on.  There was no reason for the war.  Bush and his administration lied to get us into the war.  But once we did invade Iraq we have to stabilize the country are people like bin Laden could use Iraq to attack us.  Bush’s mismanagement of foreign policies is only outweighed by his mismanagement of domestic policies.     
 
And how do you not get bin Laden when he was there for the taking?  That was a trick in itself.
Guerrilla fighters have always been a problem for standing armies.
Not when our troops say they know were he is and are told not to get him.  Not when our troops go after bin Laden anyway, are pretty sure they have them but are not allowed to close the trap.
 
The Bush knew there was a problem.  He had to cope with the .com bubble so he knew the consequences.  But he did nothing to solve the problem.  A leader is supposed to lead, not bury his head in the sand.
The endless bubbles and busts our economy endures are the result of keynsian economic policies.  Economic policy is the responsibility of congress.   Bush is a keynsian, I doubt he comprehends the problem any more than any other keynsian does.
Endless bubbles and busts in economies happened long before Keynesian.  How is that possible?  Bush is not a Keynesian.  Under Keynesian you cut back spending and increase taxes during boom times to control bubbles and busts in economies.  Bush just added fuel to the fire with his reckless spending.
 
On FDR, wasn’t he a president?  So problems under Bush are not Bush’s fault because he was president, but because FDR was trying to save the Republic and did was FDR’s fault because he was president.  
I really can't make heads or tails out of those sentences.  Could you clarify?
Sure, you blame FDR for doing what a president does in increasing spending.  But when Bush does what a president does in increasing spending you blame congress.  How come the double standard?  
 
You know like paying off the national debt with the SS surplus.
The 'ss surplus' was spent like any other tax revenue.
More and more of it was being “spent” to buy up government bonds.  And if the reduction in the growth of spending would have continued, as promised by Bush, the deficit and the national debt could have been paid down.
 
But paying off the debt was not Reagan’s, Bush’s or Bush’s fault because they were presidents – unlike FDR who was president.  (I love beating a dead horse.)
What is it with you and obama assaulting domestic herbivores?  Did you not suggest 'leaders should lead'?  The republicrats all the way back to FDR are responsible for the national debt and future unfunded liabilities... and the failure to prevent this catastrophy from occuring.
 
Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge.  I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which is now roughly -$13,072,660,000,000.00.
FDR was able to save the Republic in a time when other governments were falling left and right. 
Obama is only meeting the obligations that Bush made.  The $13 trillion you speak of is all because of Bush.  I have shown that.  
The debt was not paid off as promised.  The surplus spent.  
Wars were mismanaged and one was started for no reason at all.  
Bush added an $8 trillion unfunded welfare program.
In Bush’s mismanagement of everything we had another one of the Republicans’ global economic melt downs.  And as you put it the spending during WWII did not end the Great Depression because the spending cause a boom in the economy that some thought would not last - but they were wrong.  So the spending to get the world out of Bush’s global economic melt down is a cost of having Bush as president.  
All that adds up to $13 trillion plus that Bush is directly responsible for.

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/13/2010 2:47 AMCopy HTML

-13,076,490,000,000

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/13/2010 4:30 AMCopy HTML

Doe_Eyes
You didn't dispute what he said, you just made some silly comment that means absolutely nothing.  Why not address his statement?  Isn't it true that much of what the spending is now came from programs implemented under the Bush administration?  The wars we are involved in, they just broke the trillion dollar mark, why not discuss that.
 
You were right.

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/13/2010 4:51 AMCopy HTML

He has an agenda, facts and discussion doesn't interest him.

The time is always right to do what is right.

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/13/2010 5:26 AMCopy HTML

Actually, I'm quite interested in facts and provide them continuously... as closely as I can ascertain them to be facts.  When I give an opinion, I do try to state it as such and am willing to discuss why I hold the opinion to be true.

So the question I put to you both is simple; is this the national debt (as close as I can come to it) as of the moment I wrote it?

-$13,077,000,000,000.00

I have stated, repeatedly, that it is congress who has run up the debt that high.  That is a fact.  Congress writes the check, the president signs it.  It is a very, very rare occasion that a president does not sign the check presented to him by congress.

Both of you, bizarrely, choose to attempt to blame the entire debt on ex-president bush while at the same time making excuses for president obama.

Ex-president bush was certainly an asshole.  Ex-president bush, like fdr, helped create an entitlement without concerning himself about the consequences.

Current president obama is also an asshole who has helped create an entitlement without concerning himself about the consequences.

Both are brain dead idiots but neither write checks, they only sign them... and sign them without being bothered about having to actually pay them.

Now you both can continue your silly game about whose fault it is the titanic ran into an iceberg if you want... meanwhile the titanic is sinking and the thing that is sinking it is the national debt and future unfunded liabilities.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken

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Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted：06/13/2010 1:37 PMCopy HTML

alaskaone
Show us an entitlement program the Obama created that is part of the $13 trillion you are taking about.  It is not there.  I have shown all the debt is on Bush.  
 
And spending to get the economy on its feet is not an entitlement.  And please do not give me that line that, “WWII spending did not get us out of the Great Depression because some though that the depression would return but those people were wrong”. 

alaskaone
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Date Posted：05/26/2010 4:01 PMCopy HTML AMERICA'S NATIONAL DEBT TOPS $13,000,000,000,000; DEBT PER TAXPAYER - $117,975; US DEBT TO GDP RATIO - 90.3% None of that includes unfunded liabilities, promises the federal government has made, in the form of social security, medicare and obamacare... among others, I'm sure. Last figure I saw which included those was months ago; -$107,000,000,000,000. Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
skrumpie	Share to: #121
Rank：TAE Member Score：30103 Posts：28171 From：Argentina Register：08/30/2008 6:26 PM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/09/2010 8:27 PMCopy HTML Reply to alaskaone (06/09/2010 3:21 PM) Doesn't sound like an 'era of responsibility' to me, either. Try to remember the kind of September when men weren't girls and girls weren't fellas..................
alaskaone	Share to: #122
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/09/2010 8:45 PMCopy HTML Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone	Share to: #123
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/09/2010 8:51 PMCopy HTML If you watch this video... note how they're talking about 'billions', not trillions. I'm thinking it was recorded a few years ago. Isn't that nice? That is exactly the sort of republicrat we need to run out of town on a rail and under a flag of shame. Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Doe_Eyes	Share to: #124
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：USA Register：03/19/2009 4:12 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/09/2010 9:24 PMCopy HTML There is a significant difference between the reported budget deficit and the change in debt. The key differences are: 1) The Social Security surplus, which reduces the "off-budget" deficit often reported in the media; and 2) Non-budgeted spending, such as for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The debt increased by approximately $550 billion on average each year during the 2003-2007 period, but then increased over $1 trillion during FY 2008. The cumulative debt of the United States in the past 8 completed fiscal years was approximately $4.3 trillion, or about 43% of the total national debt of ~$10.0 trillion as of September 2008. Interest expense Budgeted net interest on the public debt was approximately $240 billion in fiscal years 2007 and 2008. This represented approximately 9.5% of government spending. Interest was the fourth largest single budgeted disbursement category, after defense, Social Security, and Medicare.^[62] Despite higher debt levels, this declined to $189 billion in 2009 or approximately 5% of spending, due to lower interest rates. Average interest rates declined due to the crisis from 1.6% in 2008 to 0.3% in 2009.^[63] During FY2008, the government also accrued a non-cash interest expense of $212 billion for intra-governmental debt, primarily the Social Security Trust Fund, for a total interest expense of $454 billion.^[64] This accrued interest is added to the Social Security Trust Fund and therefore the national debt each year and will be paid to Social Security recipients in the future. Public debt owned by foreigners has increased to approximately 50% of the total or approximately $3.4 trillion.^[65] As a result, nearly 50% of the interest payments are now leaving the country, which is different from past years when interest was paid to U.S. citizens holding the public debt. Interest expenses are projected to grow dramatically as the U.S. debt increases and interest rates rise from very low levels in 2009 to more typical historical levels. CBO estimates that nearly half of the debt increases over the 2009-2019 period will be due to interest.^[66] Should interest rates return to historical averages, the interest cost would increase dramatically. Historian Niall Ferguson described the risk that foreign investors would demand higher interest rates as the U.S. debt levels increase over time in a November 2009 interview.^{[67] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Recent_additions_to_the_public_debt_of_the_United_States} The time is always right to do what is right.
alaskaone	Share to: #125
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:31 AMCopy HTML -$13,063,963,000,000 Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Doe_Eyes	Share to: #126
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：USA Register：03/19/2009 4:12 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:33 AMCopy HTML $10,700,000,000,000.00 was inherited from the last administration. The time is always right to do what is right.
alaskaone	Share to: #127
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:38 AMCopy HTML Not really... but then you know that. Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Doe_Eyes	Share to: #128
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：USA Register：03/19/2009 4:12 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:45 AMCopy HTML Did the last administration help to reduce the debt to the point of zero? No, they did not. Did they leave a National debt of $10,700,000,000,000.00 for the next administration....why yes, yes they did, and a whole lot more crap, and we are still feeling the affects of them. But then, you know that. The time is always right to do what is right.
alaskaone	Share to: #129
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:46 AMCopy HTML I was just looking into mr starks background a bit. Wanted to learn more about the kind of mind that thinks debt = wealth... a stereotypical keynsian fallacy. Apparently, he changed his mind about that a few years later. This from wiki; "Stark voted against the bipartisan May 2008 farm subsidy bill, which was supported by most House Democrats and over half of House Republicans, in part because of its cost.^[24] He also voted against both readings of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, which gave $700 billion dollars to troubled investment banks. Stark argued that "the proposed bailout will only help reckless speculators who have been caught on the wrong side of the come line." Criticizing the bill as corporate welfare, he said "The bill before us today is basically the same three-page Wall Street give-away first put forth by President Bush" before the vote on the first bailout.^[25]^[26]" Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
codify	Share to: #130
Rank：TAE Member Score：8664 Posts：7682 From：USA Register：12/05/2008 5:24 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 5:49 AMCopy HTML Pete Stark....what a joke! Not the brightest bulb. I dont believe that he has changed. But who am I?
alaskaone	Share to: #131
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 6:05 AMCopy HTML Reply to Doe_Eyes (06/09/2010 8:45 PM) Did the last administration help to reduce the debt to the point of zero? No, they did not. Did they leave a National debt of $10,700,000,000,000.00 for the next administration....why yes, yes they did, and a whole lot more crap, and we are still feeling the affects of them. But then, you know that. I sometimes wonder, briefly... in dull moments, why you like to play these games... then I remember you are a (modern)liberal and worse, a keynesian. As you should know, it is congress that spends money, not presidents although presidents get the dubious 'honor' of signing the check someone else has written. Bush, a keynesian like yourself, and his republicrat accomplices certainly spent a bundle. If I recall correctly, in the 8 years under bush's watch, about $5 trillion was added to the national debt. mr obama is running the show now and has added $2,363,965,000,000 in only 1.5 years. That should be, even in the warped and insane world of keynsianism, an alarming acceleration in spending. Took bush and the republicrats 8 years to add $5 trillion. Obama and the republicrats have spent almost half that in just 18 months. Projecting a bit and assuming no further acceleration in spending, obama and the republicrats are spending roughly $131,331,388,888.89 per month which means in 14.7 more months, mr. obama and the republicrats will have added to the debt in only 2.7 years what it took bush and the republicrats 8 years to add. democrats, republicans... they are the same; republicrats. They are the problem. Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Doe_Eyes	Share to: #132
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：USA Register：03/19/2009 4:12 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 6:16 AMCopy HTML *it is congress that spends money, not presidents* and yet in the 2nd next paragraph, you state...... *mr obama is running the show now and has added $2,363,965,000,000* So, how can it be that Obama has added anything, since he is only president, not the one who spends the money? I know it really burns your bottom when I point out your inconsistencies, but hey, what else do I have to do before bed. The time is always right to do what is right.
alaskaone	Share to: #133
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 6:32 AMCopy HTML I sometimes wonder, briefly... in dull moments, why you like to play these games... then I remember you are a (modern)liberal and worse, a keynesian. You may recall it was you who chose to place the blame of the entire national debt upon bush II. I merely continued what you started as that is how you chose to frame the discussion. The actual and complete paragraph you refer to as my "inconsistancy" goes like this; "mr obama is running the show now and has added $2,363,965,000,000 in only 1.5 years. That should be, even in the warped and insane world of keynsianism, an alarming acceleration in spending. Took bush and the republicrats 8 years to add $5 trillion. Obama and the republicrats have spent almost half that in just 18 months." Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Ex_Member	Share to: #134
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Unknown Register：09/21/2018 12:36 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 6:55 AMCopy HTML You posted this two weeks ago. Our debt is probably higher by now.
alaskaone	Share to: #135
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 6:55 AMCopy HTML Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone	Share to: #136
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/10/2010 6:57 AMCopy HTML Reply to Aprildaze (06/09/2010 9:55 PM) You posted this two weeks ago. Our debt is probably higher by now. I did the calculations in #133 a few minutes ago, April, and based them on the debt clock, the link to which is in the O.P. It's impossible to be accurate under 100 million dollars because the numbers are spinning by so fast. Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone	Share to: #137
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/11/2010 6:28 AMCopy HTML -$13,068,482,000,000 http://newsbusters.org/blogs/eyeblast-tv-staff/2010/06/09/video-bernanke-says-nothing-table-point-tackle-fiscal-crisis Still no hint of a plan to get their spending under control. I learned yesterday that the famous 'budget surplus' during the Clinton administration... none of it was applied to the federal debt. It was all spent and the debt increased. Pretty disappointing. Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
nofencesfacing	Share to: #138
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：USA Register：02/21/2009 10:09 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/11/2010 1:45 PMCopy HTML Alaskaone Hardly. Congress, under the bush administration, added $4.899 trillion. When bush left, congress had run up the debt to $10.759 trillion. As you can see, obama/congress will have spent more in less than 2 years than bush/congress did in 8. You are wrong. Under a real president and a Democrat Congress and then under a Republican Congress the national debt was on the way to being paid off. Even Bush said if selected he would pay off the national debt in the 00’s. So the $10.759 was what Bush spent extra. Then add the $8 trillion he added with the unfunded Rx program. Then there was the war in Afghanistan that he refused to win so any cost to fight that war after Bush was out of office is on Bush. Then we are still spending money on the war for no reason. That goes against Bush. Then there is the cost to get us out of Bush’s global economic meltdown. That is on Bush. Then there is the cost of the all the Social Security program. Now that is not all Bush’s fault! So what is this junk you are throwing out there that Obama is running up the national debt? So far all the spending and all the debt came from Bush or from the liability from the Social Security programs.
natalie727	Share to: #139
Rank：TAE Member Score：4892 Posts：3684 From：USA Register：07/20/2008 10:57 PM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/12/2010 12:15 AMCopy HTML
alaskaone	Share to: #140
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/12/2010 5:25 AMCopy HTML Reply to nofencesfacing (06/11/2010 4:45 AM) Alaskaone Hardly. Congress, under the bush administration, added $4.899 trillion. When bush left, congress had run up the debt to $10.759 trillion. As you can see, obama/congress will have spent more in less than 2 years than bush/congress did in 8. You are wrong. Under a real president and a Democrat Congress and then under a Republican Congress the national debt was on the way to being paid off. Um, no... sorry. I am not wrong. During Clintons two terms, he and the republicrats increased the national debt by roughly $1.63 trillion dollars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms Even Bush said if selected he would pay off the national debt in the 00’s. So the $10.759 was what Bush spent extra. Um, no... sorry. The national debt under bush and the republicrats increased by $4.899 trillion. Then add the $8 trillion he added with the unfunded Rx program. That would be placed under future, unfunded liabilities which, last I looked, is well over $112 trillion dollars. I've often tried to combine the two... the current national debt + unfunded future liabilities but folks seemed to object so I stopped. Then there was the war in Afghanistan that he refused to win so any cost to fight that war after Bush was out of office is on Bush. Then we are still spending money on the war for no reason. That goes against Bush. Obama is the current president and as such is also the commander and chief of the military. It is within his authority to cease both wars. He chooses not to. At any rate, the funding for the wars is included in the $4.899 trillion he, bush, added to the national debt. Then there is the cost to get us out of Bush’s global economic meltdown. That is on Bush. He certainly played a role however the blame for the financial meltdown lay with congress, not the president, and has it's foundations in fdr's 'new deal'. Then there is the cost of the all the Social Security program. Now that is not all Bush’s fault! No, that is fdr and congresses fault. So what is this junk you are throwing out there that Obama is running up the national debt? So far all the spending and all the debt came from Bush or from the liability from the Social Security programs. Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge. I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which, by the way is now roughly -$13,072,660,000,000.00 Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Doe_Eyes	Share to: #141
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：USA Register：03/19/2009 4:12 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/12/2010 5:51 AMCopy HTML *So far all the spending and all the debt came from Bush or from the liability from the Social Security programs.* *Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge.* You didn't dispute what he said, you just made some silly comment that means absolutely nothing. Why not address his statement? Isn't it true that much of what the spending is now came from programs implemented under the Bush administration? The wars we are involved in, they just broke the trillion dollar mark, why not discuss that. The time is always right to do what is right.
alaskaone	Share to: #142
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/12/2010 6:17 AMCopy HTML Reply to Doe_Eyes (06/11/2010 8:51 PM) *So far all the spending and all the debt came from Bush or from the liability from the Social Security programs.* *Obama and the republicrats ;;are currently in charge.* You didn't dispute what he said, you just made some silly comment that means absolutely nothing. Why not address his statement? Isn't it true that much of what the spending is now came from programs implemented under the Bush administration? The wars we are involved in, they just broke the trillion dollar mark, why not discuss that. I addressed every point, consecutively. I really don't care what the spending is on, I care about the spending in total. Given the history of congress and the presidents, if they weren't invading Iraq and Afghanistan, then they'd be invading some other defensless third world rathole. It appears you wish to hold the bush administration responsible for everything while holding the obama administration responsible for nothing. That appears a tad irrational, not to mention hypocritical. Do please correctly me if I am misunderstanding you. If we hold bush responsible for social security then we must also hold obama responsible for social security. Both are irrational because social security was created by fdr in 1935. Bush, of course, bears responsibility for 'prescription drugs'... however the cost of the prescription drugs program is just a bucket of sea water thrown on the deck of the Titanic. Quite frankly, I care little about what republicrat asshole currently squats in the oval office. Congress is the problem. Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
nofencesfacing	Share to: #143
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：USA Register：02/21/2009 10:09 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/12/2010 6:49 AMCopy HTML alaskaone Um, no... sorry. I am not wrong. During Clintons two terms, he and the republicrats increased the national debt by roughly $1.63 trillion dollars. "On the way to paying off the debt" means on the way to pay off the debt. The hugh growth in spending that started under Reagan and Bush41 was being reversed. We were using the SS surplus to buy up bonds instead of hiding the deficit. Even Bush43 said we were going to pay off the debt in the 00’s. Um, no... sorry. The national debt under bush and the republicrats increased by $4.899 trillion. So when you give the money to the bank to pay off you car and the banker tells you that you now owe twice and much on the car as before you do not question that the car should be paid off? If not I would love to be your banker. Come on, promising to pay off the national debt and then more than doubling it. That would be placed under future, unfunded liabilities which, last I looked, is well over $112 trillion dollars. I've often tried to combine the two... the current national debt + unfunded future liabilities but folks seemed to object so I stopped. Just because you gave up on accounting does not mean that I did. So we have the $10.759 trillion balance instead of zero. Then add the $8 trillion unfunded Rx program. So far my numbers add up. Sorry about you given up on accounting. Obama is the current president and as such is also the commander and chief of the military. It is within his authority to cease both wars. He chooses not to. At any rate, the funding for the wars is included in the $4.899 trillion he, bush, added to the national debt. And how dumb would that be? If I remember correctly we are trying to stop people from attacking us. If you do not know anything about history please read the book “Godfather” or watch the move. The cost of “run away, run away” is too high. And how do you not get bin Laden when he was there for the taking? That was a trick in itself. He certainly played a role however the blame for the financial meltdown lay with congress, not the president, and has it's foundations in fdr's 'new deal'. The Bush knew there was a problem. He had to cope with the .com bubble so he knew the consequences. But he did nothing to solve the problem. A leader is supposed to lead, not bury his head in the sand. On FDR, wasn’t he a president? So problems under Bush are not Bush’s fault because he was president, but because FDR was trying to save the Republic and did was FDR’s fault because he was president. FDR also ordered our military to take out Germany. Things change. We are no longer attacking Germany. How many presidents and congresses have there been that should have corrected the problem with Social Security? You know like paying off the national debt with the SS surplus. But paying off the debt was not Reagan’s, Bush’s or Bush’s fault because they were presidents – unlike FDR who was president. (I love beating a dead horse.) Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge. I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which, by the way is now roughly Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge. I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which, by the way is now roughly Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge. I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which, by the way is now roughly -$13,072,660,000,000.00. Once again I have shown that Bush is responsible for the debt and spending you talk of, plus trillions more. All of your smoke and mirrors tricks will not change that. And please let me be your banker.
alaskaone	Share to: #144
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/12/2010 7:23 AMCopy HTML "On the way to paying off the debt" means on the way to pay off the debt. It doesn't matter what people say they're going to do, it's what they actually do that counts. The hugh growth in spending that started under Reagan and Bush41 was being reversed. No, it was merely retarded a bit... it was never actually reversed as is proven by the $1.63 trillion increase in the national debt. We were using the SS surplus to buy up bonds instead of hiding the deficit. Even Bush43 said we were going to pay off the debt in the 00’s. The 'ss surplus' was put into the general fund and spent. And, as I said before, talk doesn't matter... action does. So when you give the money to the bank to pay off you car and the banker tells you that you now owe twice and much on the car as before you do not question that the car should be paid off? If not I would love to be your banker. Come on, promising to pay off the national debt and then more than doubling it. I really don't understand what you wrote there... it appears to be logical fallacy known as a Red Herring . Would you please clarify? Just because you gave up on accounting does not mean that I did. So we have the $10.759 trillion balance instead of zero. Then add the $8 trillion unfunded Rx program. So far my numbers add up. Sorry about you given up on accounting. Generally speaking, federal obligations are divided into two group; debt and future unfunded liabilities. I did not create that distinction, I merely observe that it exists. As I have stated several times, the national debt was roughly $5.727 trillion on the day that bush took office yet it appears you wish to hold him accountable for that $5.727 trillion. If that is the case then you logically, must hold obama accountable for the roughly $10.626 trillion that existed when he took office. Obama is the current president and as such is also the commander and chief of the military. It is within his authority to cease both wars. He chooses not to. At any rate, the funding for the wars is included in the $4.899 trillion he, bush, added to the national debt. And how dumb would that be? If I remember correctly we are trying to stop people from attacking us. If you do not know anything about history please read the book “Godfather” or watch the move. The cost of “run away, run away” is too high. Let me understand this... you wish me to learn about history by reading a fictional novel or watching a movie made from it? Let me point out that if you feel the invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan are just lovely right now then you must also approve of the invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan when bush initiated them. Is that not so? And how do you not get bin Laden when he was there for the taking? That was a trick in itself. Guerrilla fighters have always been a problem for standing armies. The Bush knew there was a problem. He had to cope with the .com bubble so he knew the consequences. But he did nothing to solve the problem. A leader is supposed to lead, not bury his head in the sand. The endless bubbles and busts our economy endures are the result of keynsian economic policies. Economic policy is the responsibility of congress. Bush is a keynsian, I doubt he comprehends the problem any more than any other keynsian does. On FDR, wasn’t he a president? So problems under Bush are not Bush’s fault because he was president, but because FDR was trying to save the Republic and did was FDR’s fault because he was president. I really can't make heads or tails out of those sentences. Could you clarify? How many presidents and congresses have there been that should have corrected the problem with Social Security? All of them. You know like paying off the national debt with the SS surplus. The 'ss surplus' was spent like any other tax revenue. But paying off the debt was not Reagan’s, Bush’s or Bush’s fault because they were presidents – unlike FDR who was president. (I love beating a dead horse.) What is it with you and obama assaulting domestic herbivores? Did you not suggest 'leaders should lead'? The republicrats all the way back to FDR are responsible for the national debt and future unfunded liabilities... and the failure to prevent this catastrophy from occuring. Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge. I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which is now roughly -$13,072,660,000,000.00. Once again I have shown that Bush is responsible for the debt and spending you talk of, plus trillions more. All of your smoke and mirrors tricks will not change that. If you say so. And please let me be your banker. Dude, if I gave you a penny you'd probably bury it in a jar in the ground, hire some bloke to dig it up then declare you had decreased unemployment and boosted the economy. Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
nofencesfacing	Share to: #145
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：USA Register：02/21/2009 10:09 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/12/2010 4:49 PMCopy HTML "On the way to paying off the debt" means on the way to pay off the debt. It doesn't matter what people say they're going to do, it's what they actually do that counts. Clinton did not say he was going to pay down the national debt. He was reducing spending. The government had stopped issuing large denominations of government bonds. The government was buying up government bonds. He was “on the way to pay off the debt”. The hugh growth in spending that started under Reagan and Bush41 was being reversed. No, it was merely retarded a bit... it was never actually reversed as is proven by the $1.63 trillion increase in the national debt. So the rate of spending was reduced? The debt was not being doubled every eight years. Gee golly, I wish I had said that. We were using the SS surplus to buy up bonds instead of hiding the deficit. Even Bush43 said we were going to pay off the debt in the 00’s. The 'ss surplus' was put into the general fund and spent. And, as I said before, talk doesn't matter... action does. The SS surplus was put in the general fund and then more and more of it was being used to buy up government bonds. It was like we were “on the way to paying off the debt”. So when you give the money to the bank to pay off you car and the banker tells you that you now owe twice and much on the car as before you do not question that the car should be paid off? If not I would love to be your banker. Come on, promising to pay off the national debt and then more than doubling it. I really don't understand what you wrote there... it appears to be logical fallacy known as a Red Herring . Would you please clarify? Sure, I am using the debt on you car as an example of the national debt. When you do what is needed to pay off the car but find out you now owe more than twice what the debt was you should question your banker. Your point of view is that because Bush was your “banker”/president we should not hold him accountable. Bush had a Republican and Democrat Congress the same as Clinton. Under Bush spending was out of control. Under Clinton we were reducing the rate government was growing and on the way to paying off the debt. So look for what was different. The difference was Bush. So do not give me the BS that congress controls spending. Just because you gave up on accounting does not mean that I did. So we have the $10.759 trillion balance instead of zero. Then add the $8 trillion unfunded Rx program. So far my numbers add up. Sorry about you given up on accounting. Generally speaking, federal obligations are divided into two group; debt and future unfunded liabilities. I did not create that distinction, I merely observe that it exists. As I have stated several times, the national debt was roughly $5.727 trillion on the day that bush took office yet it appears you wish to hold him accountable for that $5.727 trillion. If that is the case then you logically, must hold obama accountable for the roughly $10.626 trillion that existed when he took office. Bush was going to pay off the national debt. So at the end of his eight years in office the national debt was zero, right. Of course not, Bush spent the surplus and then some and then Bush obligated us to spend even more after his eight years were up. The trillions you are trying to charge Obama for are liabilities made under Bush. And how dumb would that be? If I remember correctly we are trying to stop people from attacking us. If you do not know anything about history please read the book “Godfather” or watch the move. The cost of “run away, run away” is too high. Let me understand this... you wish me to learn about history by reading a fictional novel or watching a movie made from it? Let me point out that if you feel the invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan are just lovely right now then you must also approve of the invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan when bush initiated them. Is that not so? No, I want you to learn that you do not appease countries or organizations that attack this country. So off course I approved going after bin Laden and his organization. Of course I did not approve invading Iraq when alternative methods were available and we had a real war going on. There was no reason for the war. Bush and his administration lied to get us into the war. But once we did invade Iraq we have to stabilize the country are people like bin Laden could use Iraq to attack us. Bush’s mismanagement of foreign policies is only outweighed by his mismanagement of domestic policies. And how do you not get bin Laden when he was there for the taking? That was a trick in itself. Guerrilla fighters have always been a problem for standing armies. Not when our troops say they know were he is and are told not to get him. Not when our troops go after bin Laden anyway, are pretty sure they have them but are not allowed to close the trap. The Bush knew there was a problem. He had to cope with the .com bubble so he knew the consequences. But he did nothing to solve the problem. A leader is supposed to lead, not bury his head in the sand. The endless bubbles and busts our economy endures are the result of keynsian economic policies. Economic policy is the responsibility of congress. Bush is a keynsian, I doubt he comprehends the problem any more than any other keynsian does. Endless bubbles and busts in economies happened long before Keynesian. How is that possible? Bush is not a Keynesian. Under Keynesian you cut back spending and increase taxes during boom times to control bubbles and busts in economies. Bush just added fuel to the fire with his reckless spending. On FDR, wasn’t he a president? So problems under Bush are not Bush’s fault because he was president, but because FDR was trying to save the Republic and did was FDR’s fault because he was president. I really can't make heads or tails out of those sentences. Could you clarify? Sure, you blame FDR for doing what a president does in increasing spending. But when Bush does what a president does in increasing spending you blame congress. How come the double standard? You know like paying off the national debt with the SS surplus. The 'ss surplus' was spent like any other tax revenue. More and more of it was being “spent” to buy up government bonds. And if the reduction in the growth of spending would have continued, as promised by Bush, the deficit and the national debt could have been paid down. But paying off the debt was not Reagan’s, Bush’s or Bush’s fault because they were presidents – unlike FDR who was president. (I love beating a dead horse.) What is it with you and obama assaulting domestic herbivores? Did you not suggest 'leaders should lead'? The republicrats all the way back to FDR are responsible for the national debt and future unfunded liabilities... and the failure to prevent this catastrophy from occuring. Obama and the republicrats are currently in charge. I am merely providing the nearly current total debt which is now roughly -$13,072,660,000,000.00. FDR was able to save the Republic in a time when other governments were falling left and right. Obama is only meeting the obligations that Bush made. The $13 trillion you speak of is all because of Bush. I have shown that. The debt was not paid off as promised. The surplus spent. Wars were mismanaged and one was started for no reason at all. Bush added an $8 trillion unfunded welfare program. In Bush’s mismanagement of everything we had another one of the Republicans’ global economic melt downs. And as you put it the spending during WWII did not end the Great Depression because the spending cause a boom in the economy that some thought would not last - but they were wrong. So the spending to get the world out of Bush’s global economic melt down is a cost of having Bush as president. All that adds up to $13 trillion plus that Bush is directly responsible for.
alaskaone	Share to: #146
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/13/2010 2:47 AMCopy HTML -13,076,490,000,000 Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
nofencesfacing	Share to: #147
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：USA Register：02/21/2009 10:09 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/13/2010 4:30 AMCopy HTML Doe_Eyes You didn't dispute what he said, you just made some silly comment that means absolutely nothing. Why not address his statement? Isn't it true that much of what the spending is now came from programs implemented under the Bush administration? The wars we are involved in, they just broke the trillion dollar mark, why not discuss that. You were right.
Doe_Eyes	Share to: #148
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：USA Register：03/19/2009 4:12 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/13/2010 4:51 AMCopy HTML He has an agenda, facts and discussion doesn't interest him. The time is always right to do what is right.
alaskaone	Share to: #149
Rank：TAE Member Score：19447 Posts：17177 From：USA Register：12/03/2008 3:25 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/13/2010 5:26 AMCopy HTML Actually, I'm quite interested in facts and provide them continuously... as closely as I can ascertain them to be facts. When I give an opinion, I do try to state it as such and am willing to discuss why I hold the opinion to be true. So the question I put to you both is simple; is this the national debt (as close as I can come to it) as of the moment I wrote it? -$13,077,000,000,000.00 I have stated, repeatedly, that it is congress who has run up the debt that high. That is a fact. Congress writes the check, the president signs it. It is a very, very rare occasion that a president does not sign the check presented to him by congress. Both of you, bizarrely, choose to attempt to blame the entire debt on ex-president bush while at the same time making excuses for president obama. Ex-president bush was certainly an asshole. Ex-president bush, like fdr, helped create an entitlement without concerning himself about the consequences. Current president obama is also an asshole who has helped create an entitlement without concerning himself about the consequences. Both are brain dead idiots but neither write checks, they only sign them... and sign them without being bothered about having to actually pay them. Now you both can continue your silly game about whose fault it is the titanic ran into an iceberg if you want... meanwhile the titanic is sinking and the thing that is sinking it is the national debt and future unfunded liabilities. Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
nofencesfacing	Share to: #150
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：USA Register：02/21/2009 10:09 AM	Re：-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast Date Posted：06/13/2010 1:37 PMCopy HTML alaskaone Show us an entitlement program the Obama created that is part of the $13 trillion you are taking about. It is not there. I have shown all the debt is on Bush. And spending to get the economy on its feet is not an entitlement. And please do not give me that line that, “WWII spending did not get us out of the Great Depression because some though that the depression would return but those people were wrong”.