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alaskaone
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Date Posted:05/26/2010 4:01 PMCopy HTML

AMERICA'S NATIONAL DEBT
TOPS $13,000,000,000,000;
DEBT PER TAXPAYER - $117,975;
US DEBT TO GDP RATIO - 90.3%


None of that includes unfunded liabilities, promises the federal government has made, in the form of social security, medicare and obamacare... among others, I'm sure.  Last figure I saw which included those was months ago; -$107,000,000,000,000.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #241
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 6:10 AMCopy HTML

How does 288 billion in tax cuts for citizens and businesses hurt?  How is funding highway and infrastructure repairs hurting?  These contracts are going to private businesses.

Doe, you're not a stupid person.  Why won't you hold the feds up to the same standards you apply to private enterprise?  You would never be satisfied accepting press releases from BP about it's own activities yet you seem to be satisfied accepting press releases from the feds about the feds own activities.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Doe_Eyes Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #242
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 6:14 AMCopy HTML

Yet, Alaska, you WOULD be satisfied with BP press releases and not your OWN government. 

Can you dispute that people and businesses received tax cuts that amounted to 288 billion?  I'd wait around for an answer but I'm tired and it's been a long day. 

Good night, I'm outta here! 
There is a great deal to be outraged right now: Russian interference, ICE raids in hospital rooms, Eroding LGBTQ rights, Vanishing environmental protections, Puerto Rico still in shambles, Flint still without clean water, unparalleled gun homicides, a compromised Evangelical Church, raising hate crimes, the sabotaging on the Affordable Care Act. - John Pavlovitz [B]Their blood is on YOUR hands.[/B]
codify Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #243
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 6:21 AMCopy HTML

Oh lord Doe Eyes. 

So if it dont hurt govt it shouldnt hurt you as an individual if you fund all the infrastructure comtruction etc right? You will go in debt but thats okay. If you are already in debt to the point where any more would bankrupt you, why choose bankruptcy? 

Just because there is the appearance the govt has unlimited resources doesnt make it so. The govt yanks more outta your pocket, and mine, decreasing our disposable income. Might even force bankruptcy on ya!

The so called tax cut is bogus because they are raised on the wealthy. That ends up being paid in either lower wages or higher prices and higher unemployment. You and I lose.   Oh darn. 
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #244
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 6:33 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Doe_Eyes (07/12/2010 9:14 PM)

Yet, Alaska, you WOULD be satisfied with BP press releases and not your OWN government. 
I do find private enterprise slightly less untrustworthy than the federal government, that's true.  The motivations of private enterprise are generally clear enough; to make money.  Motivations of the federal government are murky, irrational and unpredictable.

Can you dispute that people and businesses received tax cuts that amounted to 288 billion?
Yes, of course.  However, since you see fit not to answer my question, I see no obligation to answer yours.

I'd wait around for an answer but I'm tired and it's been a long day. Good night, I'm outta here! 
Good night!

I do wonder if any of the other staunch supporters of the federal government are willing to answer the question? 

"Why wont folks hold the feds up to the same standards they apply to private enterprise?  They would never be satisfied accepting press releases from BP about it's own activities yet they seem to be satisfied accepting press releases from the feds about the feds own activities."
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Doe_Eyes Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #245
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 2:10 PMCopy HTML

Why wont folks hold the feds up to the same standards they apply to private enterprise? 

I'm back and will answer your question.  I do hold the federal government up to the same standards; I cynically accept their press releases until they've been proven to be lying, just as I do with Oil companies or any other private industry.  So, if you can prove to me that the press releases that the federal government has released in regards to the stimulus package are false, I'm going to take them at their word.   
There is a great deal to be outraged right now: Russian interference, ICE raids in hospital rooms, Eroding LGBTQ rights, Vanishing environmental protections, Puerto Rico still in shambles, Flint still without clean water, unparalleled gun homicides, a compromised Evangelical Church, raising hate crimes, the sabotaging on the Affordable Care Act. - John Pavlovitz [B]Their blood is on YOUR hands.[/B]
Doe_Eyes Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #246
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 2:14 PMCopy HTML

The so called tax cut is bogus because they are raised on the wealthy. That ends up being paid in either lower wages or higher prices and higher unemployment. You and I lose.   Oh darn. 

Codify, that excuse doesn't fly any more, because the fact is, the rich didn't use their tax break that Bush gave them to increase jobs and higher wages, but to take everyone's jobs overseas and do away with most business here.  The taxes have not been raised on the wealthy yet, but the will be and it's time, they've gotten by far too long without paying the piper, and they've been dancing all over the bones of the middle class. 
There is a great deal to be outraged right now: Russian interference, ICE raids in hospital rooms, Eroding LGBTQ rights, Vanishing environmental protections, Puerto Rico still in shambles, Flint still without clean water, unparalleled gun homicides, a compromised Evangelical Church, raising hate crimes, the sabotaging on the Affordable Care Act. - John Pavlovitz [B]Their blood is on YOUR hands.[/B]
codify Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #247
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 3:11 PMCopy HTML

Doe Eyes.......

Sorry that is simply hogwash. They move overseas because they are tormented by high taxes here and that makes them less competitive to the point of losing all their market share and ultimate demise.


Man o man where are these authoritarians getting their talking points from? 
Yazmine88 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #248
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 3:18 PMCopy HTML

 Wow - While we see it as greedy and Un-American, you guys defend the practice.  The mass exodus of companies leaving America which leads to high unemployment and turns us into a non-producing country is a bad thing, not a good thing, yet you Cons continue to excuse and sympathize with this practice and those who do it.  Interesting...and very short-sighted IMHO.

While we on the left are outraged because we know how detrimental this practice is to America...you guys support it.


We've all known people like Trump...and Trumpie - that creep you can never trust because they are always looking for an angle, a way to cheat people out of their money. A way to reneg on a contract, to not pay in full......they are con artists. Trump does this kind of thing because he believes that because he's very wealthy, the rules of decency do not apply to him and of course, he can threaten to sue anyone. When poor people act like Trump - well they do it because they are scammers. They have no ethics in business or in life.
codify Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #249
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 3:24 PMCopy HTML

No you support having your hand in their pockets pick pocketing them at will and are simply mad when they no longer allow your greedy little hands in their pockets and move on.

A common thief who thinks they are noble apparently.
ftjames Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #250
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 6:08 PMCopy HTML

Codify, do you support American companies moving abroad for cheaper labor? Do you think this is something the founders of this country would have wanted?
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 6:54 PMCopy HTML

The founders would never have had to worry about that. They knew full well the evils of excessive taxation. Also, they would have allowed an American company to go anywhere it wanted to go. It's called freedom and liberty.
ftjames Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #252
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 9:01 PMCopy HTML

The founders knew full well the evils of government in business. As I've said many times before Reagan, and Clinton killed this country with government involvment. Reagan granted amnesty to millions of illegals with his cheap labor notions, and the U.S. government as a whole has followed right along. No, factsmacker the founders wouldn't be happy with the way government over the years has handled the economics of this country.

mrscorie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #253
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 9:37 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Doe_Eyes (07/11/2010 12:10 PM)

The difference is that Obama is trying to stimulate the economy, W. was just spending....mainly on his buddies in the war profiteering area, drug companies and oh yeah, the oil industry.  Not to mention, all those supposedly economic stimulating tax cuts W. gave the rich......never stimulated anything but taking the rest of the jobs here overseas.  Now the only thing the US seems to produce is whiny assed tea party types.


Can I also add that if Obama came in and didn't pass any law to spend money 800 billion a year would be added to the deficit because of the Bush Tax cuts would adds 678 Billion to the deficit every year.  We add 150 Billion a year to the deficit to pay for our two wars and that is at the minimum. 


So the question is who is seriously about pay the deficit.  What do we cut and what do we increase.  If we end the two wars we can save 150 Billion a year.  If we let the Bush cuts expire we can pay for our own shit and stop borrowing 678 Billion dollars from China every year.  That is about 800 Billion +.  Then we can work on the entitlement programs.

Who is serious!
I AM REAL!!! I AM REAL!!!!
Hayekian Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #254
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 10:01 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Doe_Eyes (07/13/2010 1:05 AM)

When "W" left office on January 20, 2009, the national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08


... and it has increased by $2,500,000,000,000 in the 18 months Barack Obama has been President.

It took the incompetent spendthrift Bush 96 months to increase the debt by $4,900,000,000,000.  At the current rate of increase. President Barack Obama will match Bush's unprecedented debt increase in 36 months ... and if this fiscal irresponsibility continues to the 2013 inauguration, the public debt will have increased by $6,900,000,000,000 during President Obama's single term in office.
Comment: Part of the present problem in Washington is the lack of compromise. Response: It's always better for the bully when the bullied does not resist, isn't it?
Hayekian Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #255
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 10:04 PMCopy HTML

Reply to mrscorie (07/13/2010 4:37 PM)

Reply to Doe_Eyes (07/11/2010 12:10 PM)

The difference is that Obama is trying to stimulate the economy, W. was just spending....mainly on his buddies in the war profiteering area, drug companies and oh yeah, the oil industry.  Not to mention, all those supposedly economic stimulating tax cuts W. gave the rich......never stimulated anything but taking the rest of the jobs here overseas.  Now the only thing the US seems to produce is whiny assed tea party types.


Can I also add that if Obama came in and didn't pass any law to spend money 800 billion a year would be added to the deficit because of the Bush Tax cuts would adds 678 Billion to the deficit every year.  We add 150 Billion a year to the deficit to pay for our two wars and that is at the minimum. 


So the question is who is seriously about pay the deficit.  What do we cut and what do we increase.  If we end the two wars we can save 150 Billion a year.  If we let the Bush cuts expire we can pay for our own shit and stop borrowing 678 Billion dollars from China every year.  That is about 800 Billion +.  Then we can work on the entitlement programs.

Who is serious!


Please document the source for your statistics.
Comment: Part of the present problem in Washington is the lack of compromise. Response: It's always better for the bully when the bullied does not resist, isn't it?
docjim Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #256
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 10:11 PMCopy HTML

Hay,

just thought you should know your font size got stuck on huge.

thought you would want to fix that as soon as possible.

BTW, Obama inherited a budget $1.3 Trillion in deficit...what exactly could he have done to make that number zero?

After all, all of this is his fault right? So why didnt' he act immediately?

Oh, don't forget to fix that font thing...it is a bit annoying.
DRJim
Hayekian Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #257
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/13/2010 10:38 PMCopy HTML

The font choice was done with purpose.

Since Doe repeated her post, I thought perhaps she missed my previous response.  I didn't want it to happen a second time.

The Democratic Congress (who actually sets the budget and was responsible for the deficit that existed when Obama was inaugurated) could eliminate the deficit by implementing the 2005 Federal budget.
 
They would still be spending $2.5 trillion in FY 2011.
Comment: Part of the present problem in Washington is the lack of compromise. Response: It's always better for the bully when the bullied does not resist, isn't it?
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #258
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Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

Date Posted:07/14/2010 3:06 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Doe_Eyes (07/13/2010 5:10 AM)

Why wont folks hold the feds up to the same standards they apply to private enterprise? 

I'm back and will answer your question.  I do hold the federal government up to the same standards; I cynically accept their press releases until they've been proven to be lying, just as I do with Oil companies or any other private industry.  So, if you can prove to me that the press releases that the federal government has released in regards to the stimulus package are false, I'm going to take them at their word.   
You have just said that you do not treat the federal government in the same manner that you do a private business? 

Well, no matter.

Here are some examples of what 'stimulus' was used for.

• $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

<!--startclickprintexclude-->

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

• $850 million for Amtrak.

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/02/gop.stimulus.worries/index.html

  • $5 million to create a geothermal energy system for a shopping mall in Tennessee. The mall is over half empty of tenants and has had falling shopper attendance for years *
  • $1.57 million to Penn State University study fossils in Argentina *
  • $100,000 to a puppet theater in Minnesota *
  • $2 million to build a replica railroad tourist trap in Carson City, Nev. *
  • A boat cruise company in Chicago got almost $1 million to “combat terrorism” *
  • $500,000 went to Ariz. State Univ. to study ant genetics *
  • Another $450,000 went to Uinv. of Arizona to study ants *
  • Almost $400,000 went to Univ. of New York to pay students to drink beer and smoke marijuana for a study there *
  • $219,000 to the Nat’l Institute of Health to study if young people “hook-up” after getting drunk *
  • $210,000 to the Univ. of Hawaii to study bees *
  • $700,000 to crab fishermen in Oregon to pay for lost crab pots *
  • $5,000 a person tax rebate if you buy a new electric golf cart (Wall Street Journal)
  • Up to $1 million went to prisoners in $250 stimulus checks (FoxNews)
  • $54 mil to a New York Indian tribe to run its casino (New York Post)
  • $1 billion for a power plant in Mattoon, Illinois that is based on speculative science and may not even work
  • $15 million to back-road bridges that get little traffic in Wisconsin **
  • $800,000 for a practically unused airport in Pennsylvania **
  • $3.4 million for an animal walk way under a road in Florida **
  • $1.15 million to install a guard rail for a lake that doesn’t even exist in Oklahoma **
  • $10 million to renovate a rail station that has stood unused for a decade **
  • $578,000 to battle homelessness in Union, New York even though the town says they have no homeless people there **
  • $233,000 to the Univ. of Calif. to study why Africans vote… in Africa ***
  • $2 million to build a new fire house in a Nevada town that has no firemen ***
  • North Carolina schools got $4.4 million for literacy and math coaches… to teach their teachers! ***
  • $54 million for a railroad project in Napa Valley went to a minority-owned company that then hired a local construction company for half the price, pocketing the rest ***
  • A California company was given $15 million in stimulus money to monitor water quality in a stream it was under indictment for polluting previously***
  • <!--startclickprintexclude-->http://biggovernment.com/wthuston/2010/07/05/obama-says-stimulus-worked-created-jobs-heres-a-reminder-of-the-waste/

    That's only a partial list, of course.  As is it plain to see, stimulus was distributed mainly to city, state and federal bureaucracies.  While it can be argued that those bureaucracies do, in fact, employ people it is well known that jobs in government tend to pay more than in the private sector and public employees are not really vulnerable to loosing their jobs.

    Here are some more media reports, if you are interested.

    A 40-Year Wish List - WSJ.com
    After a flurry of stimulus spending, questionable projects pile up ...
    Here's What They're Spending Your Money On - Iain Murray - The ...

    One last thing I want to point out is when it comes to figuring out what's going wrong, there is no better source than the opposition.  Think about it.  If you are surrounded by 'yes men' and the media thinks you're are the greatest thing since sliced bread... how are you going to know if things aren't working out the way you think?  The 'yes men' aren't going to tell you.  The media who've been fawning over you aren't going to point anything out.  It's the 'emperor has no clothes on' scenario.

    Opposition is valuable.  Critics are valuable.
    Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
    alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #259
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    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/14/2010 3:26 AMCopy HTML

    When "W" left office on January 20, 2009, the national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08

    That is a very impressive figure, isn't it?  I wonder what it was when the fool was elected?  Looks like
    $5,770,000,000,000.00

    Forgive me for rounding off.  The calculator in xp is tough to use.  So, subtract 5.770 trillion from 10.627 trillion gives us the amount the feds added to the debt during the bush administration. $4.857 trillion in 8 years.

    So, to recap... in 8 years Bush and the republicrats managed to add $4,857,000,000,000.00 to the national debt.

    $13,185,717,000,000.00 as of about now minus bush and the republicrats 10.627 equals 2.559 trillion.

    Mr. obama and the republicrats have added well over half of that amount in less than 2 years.

    Bush & republicrats added     $4.857 trillion in 8 years.
    Obama & republicrats added $2.559 trillion in 1 year, 7 months.

    If obama & republicrats continues spending at this rate, and it seems very likely that they will accelerate spending but lets just keep it at current level, $135 billion per month, that puts the national debt at the end of the four years at $17,100,717,000,000.00

    That means in 4 years obama and the republicrats will have added $6,473,840,000,000.

    Bush & republicrats:     $4.857 trillion in 8 years.
    Obama & republicrats:  $6.474 trillion in 4 years.
    Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
    Hayekian Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #260
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    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/14/2010 3:51 AMCopy HTML

    You came to the same result I did - with more precision.  Here is a handy reference link to obtain the "debt to the penny" for any date back to  01/04/1993:  http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

    Spending under Bush was horrendous - under Obama it is worse.
    Comment: Part of the present problem in Washington is the lack of compromise. Response: It's always better for the bully when the bullied does not resist, isn't it?
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    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/14/2010 4:10 AMCopy HTML

    That 'intergovernmental holdings' catagory always makes me laugh.

    I owe myself money that I spent.  Haha!
    Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
    alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #262
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    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/14/2010 10:13 AMCopy HTML

    -    $13,186,939,000,000.00 national debt
    -$109,529,926,000,000.00 in future unfunded liabilities.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -$122,716,865,000,000.00

    "From 2008 to now, the composition of the stimulus bills has changed, from mostly tax rebates intended to boost consumer demand to mostly income transfers from the employed to the unemployed and from the federal government to the states. Though the stimulus machine’s architects would be loath to admit it, this transformation represents the failure of its stated purpose, which is to create jobs and to jump-start sustainable economic growth. The unemployment rate is stalled out at around 10 percent, and no growth model that relies on continued infusions of borrowed money is sustainable. The stimulus machine is designed to provide the illusion of growth in the absence of a solution to the jobs problem, and since no one in Washington seems to know how to solve that problem, it is going to be very difficult, as a matter of politics, to turn the machine off.

    The mechanics of the machine are simple. Politicians feel an irresistible compulsion to “do something” about persistently high unemployment, yet they lack the will or the ability to do things that might actually work: so they give away money. Republicans are not exempt from the laws that govern this system: The Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 passed with the support of 169 House and 32 Senate Republicans and was signed by a Republican president. Granted, this was the least objectionable of the five stimulus bills. It consisted mostly of individual tax rebates and temporary enhancements to business-tax deductions, and was intended to provide a “booster shot” to the economy by encouraging spending and hiring.

    But consumers and businesses tend to make spending and hiring decisions based on long-term income expectations, not short-term windfalls, as the late economist Milton Friedman explained. And as Friedman would have predicted, the 2008 stimulus had little effect on economic growth, and it certainly failed to prevent the economy from spiraling into a recession as large problems in the banking sector came to light. The best that can be said for the 2008 measure is that policymakers minimized the inefficient allocation of resources by giving the money to the private sector instead of spending it themselves. For the most part, that was not the case with the stimulus bills that followed."

    cont... http://article.nationalreview.com/437879/mechanical-failure/stephen-spruiell



    Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
    Doe_Eyes Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #263
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    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/14/2010 1:45 PMCopy HTML

    Sorry, Alaska, but all of your speculation doesn't reflect that Obama came into office with a financial meltdown happening that was only comparible to the great depression and our country involved in two wars, one that was at the whim of bush.  I'm surprised that it only took what has been spent to help us maintain some sort of financial viability.  I don't believe that Obama has ever said that this spending is a long term thing and that we can continue to spend money in this way, but it was emergency measures to help recover from the financial disaster he came into office with.  Twist and turn all you want but Obama is getting us out of a financial mess that bush and buddies put us in. 
    There is a great deal to be outraged right now: Russian interference, ICE raids in hospital rooms, Eroding LGBTQ rights, Vanishing environmental protections, Puerto Rico still in shambles, Flint still without clean water, unparalleled gun homicides, a compromised Evangelical Church, raising hate crimes, the sabotaging on the Affordable Care Act. - John Pavlovitz [B]Their blood is on YOUR hands.[/B]
    codify Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #264
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    • Register:12/05/2008 5:24 AM

    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/14/2010 1:48 PMCopy HTML

    Doe Eyes

    Why did he go after Obamacare then?
    Doe_Eyes Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #265
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    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/14/2010 2:09 PMCopy HTML

    It was a campaign promise, it was long overdue, it was the right thing to do.

    There is a great deal to be outraged right now: Russian interference, ICE raids in hospital rooms, Eroding LGBTQ rights, Vanishing environmental protections, Puerto Rico still in shambles, Flint still without clean water, unparalleled gun homicides, a compromised Evangelical Church, raising hate crimes, the sabotaging on the Affordable Care Act. - John Pavlovitz [B]Their blood is on YOUR hands.[/B]
    alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #266
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    • Register:12/03/2008 3:25 AM

    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/15/2010 3:03 AMCopy HTML

    Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
    alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #267
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    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/15/2010 3:12 AMCopy HTML

    Reply to Doe_Eyes (07/14/2010 4:45 AM)

    Sorry, Alaska, but all of your speculation doesn't reflect that Obama came into office with a financial meltdown happening that was only comparible to the great depression and our country involved in two wars, one that was at the whim of bush. 
    Ironically, the roots of the financial meltdown are in the great depression which was itself caused by federal meddling.  Obviously the solution is more federal meddling.  I've never understood that... when a business fails, it goes out of business but when the government fails, we give it more money and more power.  Insanity.

    I'm surprised that it only took what has been spent to help us maintain some sort of financial viability. 
    "Financial viability' was never in question.  Reckless investors loose some money, reckless borrowers learn a lesson.  It should have ended with that.

    I don't believe that Obama has ever said that this spending is a long term thing and that we can continue to spend money in this way, but it was emergency measures to help recover from the financial disaster he came into office with.  Twist and turn all you want but Obama is getting us out of a financial mess that bush and buddies put us in. 
    As I have demonstrated many times, the financial meltdown was caused by federal meddling in the market.  Throwing good money after bad is stupid.
    Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
    alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #268
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    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/15/2010 6:40 AMCopy HTML

    -    $13,190,641,000,000.00 national debt
    -$109,541,904,000,000.00 in future unfunded liabilities.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -$122,732,545,000,000.00
    Spending Can Be Cut

    Politicians who tell you democracies can’t slash spending are lying.

    Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
    Doe_Eyes Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #269
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    • Register:03/19/2009 4:12 AM

    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/15/2010 6:43 AMCopy HTML

    When "W" left office on January 20, 2009, the national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08

    There is a great deal to be outraged right now: Russian interference, ICE raids in hospital rooms, Eroding LGBTQ rights, Vanishing environmental protections, Puerto Rico still in shambles, Flint still without clean water, unparalleled gun homicides, a compromised Evangelical Church, raising hate crimes, the sabotaging on the Affordable Care Act. - John Pavlovitz [B]Their blood is on YOUR hands.[/B]
    alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #270
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    Re:-$124 trillion in debt/liabilities and growing fast

    Date Posted:07/15/2010 6:50 AMCopy HTML

    Bush & republicrats added     $4.857 trillion in 8 years.
    Obama & republicrats added $2.559 trillion in 1 year, 7 months.

    If current spending rate continues unaccelerated then...

    Bush & republicrats:     $4.857 trillion in 8 years.
    Obama & republicrats:  $6.474 trillion in only 4 years.
    Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
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